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Amel
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how the sound works part two , Global pich settings. .

Since I have been almost crushed in the previous thread about my research. . Here is something else that will probably be also very strange.
Some of you probably heard about devils music, secret messages from the Satan when play a cd in reverse.
But there is also a natural frequency of sound. In this article you will find something that challenge me to start to explore the idea of music today..

https://attunedvibrations.com/432hz/

gregstull
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This subject keeps showing up

This subject keeps showing up on my facebook feed and I really see no reason to believe it is anything other than your typical pseudoscience.

 

 

stePH
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A=432 Hz, known as Verdi’s ‘A

A=432 Hz, known as Verdi’s ‘A’ is an alternative tuning that is mathematically consistent with the universe. Music based on 432Hz transmits beneficial healing energy, because it is a pure tone of math fundamental to nature.

The universal music of sacred geometry

According to Brain T. Collins, a musician and researcher, the standard pitch (A=440 Hz) does not harmonize on any level that corresponds to cosmic movement, rhythm, or natural vibration. The greatest musicians, such as Mozart and Verdi, based their music on the natural vibration of A=432. It’s true that it is only 8 vibrations per second different from the standard tuning, but this small difference seems to be remarkable to our human consciousness.

There’s a growing musical and metaphysical movement for recovering optimal integrity in the music industry and spirituality through the 432Hz tuning. In April 2008 Dutch journalist Richard Huisken founded the ‘back to 432 Hz’ committee, claiming that this original tuning was used in ancient cultures and is found on antique instruments like the Stradivarius violin.

I call bullshit. This is pure unsubstantiated woo.  And a Stradivarius violin can just as easily be tuned to A-440 as to A-432.

 

stePH
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Music based on this natural

Music based on this natural tone is more transparent, more marked, gives an obvious musical picture and the overtones and undertones moves more freely. Music based on 440 Hz represents stuffed emotions and blocked energy. By lowering the pitch by just 8 Hz, you became more flexible and spontaneous. The 432 Hz tuning releases your energy and takes you into a beautiful state, where relaxation is natural.

COUGH *bullshit* COUGH

mike
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The author needs to smoke

The author needs to smoke more pot, he is definitely getting somewhere high off in the universe.

There is no doubt that music affects consciousness, there is no doubt color affects consciousness but even if this were true it means we are all just machines operating at some higher program and we have bugs.

I was around a bunch of this stuff when I lived in Seattle in the 90's, true flakes there for sure. What I realized was, the types of people trying to say these mathematical patterns have some deeper meaning then us just living on this rock, really had no life at all except trying to make others believe in it.

Kind of like extremists of all types, they can't see the forest from the tree. It's more fun just living my life the way I do, then thinking I am not living it the way some freaking math formula says.

And, there is NO DOUBT mathematics is the language of nature BUT that doesn't mean its a religion either.

billdough
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well said mike ^

well said mike ^

TheRektafire
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You know what Amel? You can

You know what Amel? You can go take a trip to the time out corner with goccia blue ;)

demonshredder
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i read that a 2 note chord

i read that a 2 note chord can produce negative/positive feelings based on how close or apart the notes played are. we know how this sounds, i think.  is this something related?

Xenoplas
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well some notes simply sound

well some notes simply sound great together and some don't especially if they're not in the right key :'D everything else is just esoterics if you ask me.

edgey
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Retuning your whole track to

Retuning your whole track to a different pitch may make it subconsciously stand out (if that's not an oxymoron).  DJ's would hate it though.

mike
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I think that is why

I think that is why turntables were so popular in the rave/dance club scene because all the drugged out partiers we actually listening to 432 Hz since vinyl never really played in tune. smiley The DJs were gods and had a hold on them, they knew the truth.

Amel
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I wish I could test this

I wish I could test this somehow, any ideas?

edgey
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@Amel, What exactly do you

@Amel, What exactly do you want to test?  Generally, anything to do with perception you should do a blind test with a reasonably large group of people.  

 

There are definitely some psycho-acoustic effects that are real, for example:-

and 

Xenoplas
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they have pretty reasonable

they have pretty reasonable explanations compared to 432 hz simply being more comfortable than 440 hz though :)

lord_bondslave
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Why not 438.666?  Buhahahaha 

Why not 438.666?  Buhahahaha devil

skarabee
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Should I add something? ;-)

Should I add something? ;-)

And don't forget one thing: be it 432, 440 or 442.31416, we are using a tempered scale, a sort of average between the math perfection and the practical way to build playable instruments.

If you want to research something serious, you should Google "microtonal music".

Xenoplas
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please do so :D

please do so :D

stePH
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Sorry, but that same site

Sorry, but that same site claims the "Love Frequency" of 528~ cleaned up the BP oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico.

That's some serious horseshit right there, and a sign that I should disregard anything else they have to say.
 

opus.quatre
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I didn't need headphones to

I didn't need headphones to notice that the girl on the first video is deliciously biboobal.. And the guy, hemihairal..

 

 

 

ahem..

 

Sorry guys, I could not resist..

Part of that, their piece of music is not totally a piece of shit.. I don't hate it..

 

About the shepard tone.. The ever ascending tone..Mid 1960s..  In the late 1970s, Jean-Claude Risset 'France) was so impressed by this sound, that he would use it in all his compositions.. (Kidding.. This man was a very nice person.. Pleasant to talk to..)

  It's a simple concept..  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepard_tone

ANd when you play it backwards, no Satan's speech, but an ever-descending tone..

But making last for 5 minutes is exagerated.. We're not dumb that much, so that we could not have understood it faster..

 

Concerning the A 432kHz, why not ? The article doesn't explain anything..Just kinda says "believe" without arguing or demonstrating.. The article sounds esoteric more than scientific.. But that doesn't mean that the idea is false.. Only the way it is presented..

Anyway, it is known that, during a performance, the tuning slightly raises with the excitement of the musician.. It seems to be true for non-stable-tuning instruments.. Voices, strings.. It seems that, as excitement increases, our own biological rythms swill also increase.. And then, this would result in unconsciously increase the "diapason", or tuning, of our voices or strings, to compensate..

Or course, this will not affect the tuning of a piano.. And surely not, the tuning of an electronic instrument..

This has been noticed in classical music, in operas for instance, that the pitch would raise during the performance.. That's also true for rythm, and in that case, that would apply to pop music bands too, and even to synthesizers.. Except when they are driven by electronic devices as a non-emotive sequencer.. Or a drum machine..

I don't reject the idea that a relation could exist between our biological rythms and the tuning, and that would make some tuning more 'cooling" and some other tunings "more energizing".. Yes, why not ? Same for rythms..

But we know that our biological rythms are not stable.. Take our heartbeat, for example ? It varies with age.. It varies with the efforts we just made, with our emotions, etc.. After a 100m run, do we feel that our favorite tune is played too slow or to low (in pitch) ?? Not sure at all..

 

And now.. Concerning the instruments of the ancients.. If the standard tuning, at a time, was 432 kHz, then the instrument maker (do you say "factor" ? Yes, probably) would do his best so that the instrument sounds good on that tuning.. Otherwise, he could not sell it easily.. But if the standard tuning suddenly changes to 425 or 489 kHz, those instruments will then sound bad..

Now, centuries later, some people try those instruments and notice that they sound better when tuned to 432 kHz and claim "THAT'S THE PROOOOOOOF !!"

(Sorry for caps and sticky keys..)

The proof of what ? The proof that this instrument was made at a time when standard tuning was 432.. Doesn't mean that this standard was better, or more natural.. Only means that, at this time, it was 432.. That's all we can conclude..

No.. We can also conclude that if you want to play Bach or Scarlatti, iot's better to use the instruments of that time, tuned as they were at that time.. But this, baroque players know it since the late 1970s.. Nothing new under the sun, then..

Now, the article says "many instruments".. What does "many" mean ? we found 20 of them ?? 100 of them ? 1 000 ? 10 000 ? And in terms of ratio ? 1% ? 10% ? 50% ? 99% ??

A real scientist would tell it.. An esoterist will not.. This article is that of an esoterist.. Doesn't mean that what is said is untrue, but it's not documented and presented like a magic effect..

 

Anyway.. Psycho-acoustics is not only a big shit for people in search or religion or of obscure pseudo-knowledges.. Even if charlatans exist in every discipline, psycho acoustics is a science, and a real one, which can be used in medecine (to treat nervous-breakdowns, for example, or other psychic problems), but also a dangerous tool when it is used to excite people, in  a political meeting, for example..

The fact that a music will calm you, or excite you, we already know it.. An intuitive knowledge, but still.. By saying this, we almost mainly refer to rythm, and secondary, to the brightness or softness of the sounds used.. The fact that the tuning of the instruments could be an active parameter, is not impossible.. The fact that the effect of this tuning, would be a relation with our internal, biological, rythms, can be believed.. But then I would need a real scientist text, based on real experiences.. The fact that this tuning would be in relation with the size of the great pyramid in Egypt, or the distance to the sun, I can't believe it..

Btw.. just a question ? Is the distance to the sun, a constant value ? Or should we tune our instruments to 428kHz in winter, and 465 in spring, and then back to 428 un summer, and again 456 in autumn ?

And on february 29th, every 4 years ? What would we be suppose to tune our instruments to ?

 

mike
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For the record, I am not one

For the record, I am not one of those that think humans have all the answers. My comment was purely that if a kinder gardener plays on the playground and that is their world, without the knowledge of PI and an understanding of the circle, what does it matter to the child.

The fact is I am an engineer and only care about things that are proven with physics. Any scientist knows that the only thing that is real is what is repeatable and explained by anybody that wants to read what has been written, it's be proven many times, time and time again.

Metaphysics is a slippery slope due to the fact our Universe is majical, we are the children playing in the sand boxes right now unaware of insane physics yet to be learned.

But to go off making up stories without repeatable justified study is not what rational people do trying to understand the universe.

Saying a frequency is "God" is just ridiculous without understanding what "God" is and humans have no clue yet that is proven by science. Doesn't mean "God" doesn't exist, just means there are thousands of beliefs of what "God" is or isn't and even that "God" doesn't exist at all, but it doesn't mean shit at the end of the day.

That is why I love nature because that is as close to my definition of what "God" is to me. Beauty in patterns and cycles, but flaky people seem to be insecure and they ramble about things that to me just sound like poetry.

opus.quatre
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http://www.collective

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2013/12/21/heres-why-you-should-conv...

 

"I cannot state with complete certainty that every idea suggested in this article is 100% accurate, nor am I an expert on the subject. I simply gathered interesting information from others who researched this issue more deeply. For this reason, if we are looking for scientific validation for these claims, I suggest that we each do our own research on the matter with an open yet discerning mind. Perhaps more research on this topic will be done in the near future to help explain the phenomenon."

 

This sounds better to me..

And also.. "“Music based on C=128hz (C note in concert A=432hz) will support humanity on its way towards spiritual freedom. The inner ear of the human being is built on C=128 hz.” – Rudolph Steiner"

If someone proves that EVERY human being has an inner ear with the same resonance frequency, and then concludes that some notes, some frequencies, or some tunings, will be in sympathy, in harmony, or in disonnance, with this inner resonance frequency.. That this harmony or disonnance, will have an influence on the behaviour or mood, I can understand and accpet it.. It MIGHT be possible..

Then I will ask ; and for my cat ? Does she have the same resonance frequency ?? Or the music that will ease my mind, might make her nervous ? Will she eat me while I'm listening to 432kHz music,  trying to be in peace ??

opus.quatre
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@ mike.. I wish my english

@ mike.. I wish my english would be better, so that I would understand you better.. I feel that I agree with you approach, you analyse..

Sure, we all know.. I mean, we all should know, that a thing can be scientifically proven, when the experience can be repeated and leads, everytime, to the same effect.. We also (should) know that a real scientific experiment, is made when we only change one parameter at a time.. 

 

"Saying a frequency is "God" is just ridiculous without understanding what "God" is and humans have no clue yet that is proven by science. Doesn't mean "God" doesn't exist, just means there are thousands of beliefs of what "God" is or isn't "

Da.. I would even add that the strength of those article, relies in the fact that there is that great ambiguity about the undefined God.. Everyone understands something different, but vague, so everyone will accept it..

Politicians do exactly the same, using vague, undefined words, so that everyone of us will believe that the politician speak about the same thing as the one we have in mind.. When a politician say "freedom", I will be ok with him.. Not knowing that what he means is different to what I understand.. And politician will do his best not to explain the meaning of his word "freedom", cause if he would explain it, I would then understand that we don't speak about the same thing..

Same when people say "God" without further definition.. Or when the article (mentioned above) says "many instruments of the ancients" without more precisions.. What does "ancients" mean ? 1999 ? Egyptians ? Maya ? XIXth century ?? What does "many" mean ??

"Within the archaic Greek Eleusenian Mysteries, Orpheus is the god of music, death and rebirth, and was the keeper of the Ambrosia and the music of transformation. His instruments were tuned at 432Hz."

Speaking like if Orpheus had ever been an human on Earth, and if we would have really kept and idententified his instruments.

and "According to Ananda Bosman, international researcher and musician,'".. Who is he or she ? at which universty or research center ? Who did prompte this person to the status of "international researcher and musician" ?

Etc etc etc.. This text is proving and explaining nothing.. Doesn't mean that the 432kHz theory is bad.. Doesn"t prove that it's reliable as well.. 

The only true information included in this text is ; someone wrote this text..

mike
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Yeah, I get where you are

Yeah, I get where you are coming from and that was my point, I have applications that have 10,000's of lines of code. I could believe that changing one line because it would make the number of letters the same as the previous line will make the code run correct and in harmony with the previous line (hehe), our I can unit test and prove that changing the line of code will make the app run correct.

I think in the last 15 years of programming I have learned more about life then I have with anything else. Every time I think I have a good idea because I "believe" in it, it turns out to be a pile of shit when I go to test it. So now that I am older and "wiser" I test first, then make the assumption. cheeky

TheRektafire
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But you can't make a piece of

But you can't make a piece of code run in perfect harmony with another piece of code unless it's running on a different thread :P

stePH
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Peer review or it didn't

Peer review or it didn't happen.

mike
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> But you can't make a piece

But you can't make a piece of code run in perfect harmony with another piece of code unless it's running on a different thread :P

I think recursion counts, I do that often. :)

Peer review, haha what's that? I sail my ship solo. 

Mrshots
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Well since you can tune

Well since you can tune caustic to 432hz using a secret code on one of the recent threads with rej (cant remember off the top of my head) I gave it a quick try. Apart from the noticeable dip in pitch, nothing at all different...

I make orchestral uplifting trance. See for yourself on my SoundCloud, you may like it :) https://soundcloud.com/user696762693 Thanks!

Jason
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While it is interesting

While it is interesting theory and people are profiting off of it, it is largely junk science......

demonshredder
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so basically, when the songs

so basically, when the songs i like start to wind up and tighten then snap loose like spagetti.   (and i hear sirens in there too) basically trap. its meant to drive me up the wall! i knew it! laugh

Rej - Dev
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https://skeptoid.com/episodes

https://skeptoid.com/episodes/4474

 

there's a small bit in there about the 432Hz nonsense and other music-related quackery. Interesting bit of history, I learned a few things.

opus.quatre
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@Mike .. Your soft would

@Mike .. Your soft would probably run better if they had 432 lines of 432 characters.. Then it would be in phase with the Universe Harmonic Structure Of Love Peace and Sex, whatever it could mean..

On my side, I never buy any piece of bread if it's size is not an exact exponential ratio of the Cosmic Divine Standard Length, which I didn't define yet but those words give such an impression of mysticism, I'm sure I start having adepts and disciples right now..

opus.quatre
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More seriously..

More seriously..

@Amel.. @ everyone..

I you want to hear interesting, and scientifically correct, things about sounds, then you should turn your dubstep off for a while, and give your headphones to David Huron, on Vimeo.. HE is really interesting, and you can rely on what he says.. He even tells his sources..

https://vimeo.com/user8725919

this supposes that you can understand oral english, of course.. I have some difficulties, but this guy is so clear, and speaks so well, and repeats things so many times, that in the end, you finally catch it even if you miss some words and/or complete phrases..

For example, yesterday, I watched his "the pitch/height metaphore" and sure I ended up with something more in my knowledge or in my understanding..

UncleAfx
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http://sevish.com/2015
UncleAfx
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The Shepard tone..... kindof.

The Shepard tone..... kindof. I gave it a good try, but I probably still got something wrong.

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