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justintime0185
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Joined: 12/13/2015 - 13:24
Ideas For Performing Live GENERALLY

EDIT:

When I made this I was actually talking about performing electronic live without caustic. I was more talking about about general use of hardware or software synths. I want to know the set up of those who perform their electronic music live (again, not necessarly with caustic). That's all. :P

I assume a lot of people in this community have at least tried it and I just figured it would be fun to share ideas.

Sorry for the confusion.

-----

Hey, folks.

I was wondering if anyone had some ideas that could be snow balled regarding performing electronic music live.

I can understand how a lot of dance is performed since its all very layered and sometimes easy to sequence.

But when it comes to electronic music that changes structure, and bpm, regularly (sometimes without a gradual transition) I'm not sure how that works. I was thinking samplers would work.

Any performers that can share there set up to give me Ideas?

The music I produce is composed with a one man band mentality. So, there s a bass (represented by a bass wobble that sounds more like a guitar at times), and a lead (Represented by a distorted piano or a saw preset). Those are the two main things I plan to control live along with vocals.

It's basically an electronic project for metal heads.

Anyway yeah. I want to hear about the live setups you folks have. Im more of a hardware guy but I'm open to software if it's cheaper.

folkdisco
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Joined: 07/18/2014 - 19:32
Quote from single cell

Quote from single cell software: "it is NEVER going to happen in Caustic, never, Rej's own words. Nothing live will ever exist in Caustic...."
If you want live performance software, I am afraid Caustic is not for you, and will never have that functionality. Also, Caustic has fixed BPM. Maybe look at something like G Stomper, or ufxloops. Be prepared to scratch your head a bit with G Stomper, because the work flow can be confusing, especially at first. But BPMs and time signature changes are no problem, and it is completely controllable live.

carl-alex
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Joined: 11/08/2012 - 05:30
Some years ago, I proposed

Some years ago, I proposed some simple ideas to enhance the app - not really for live play but more for live composing. This elements were (as I remember):

  • Function to unset a pattern in pattern screen (maybe by click on the number of the currently selected pattern or by changing the bank), so that no pattern is shown/played by the machine (without having to mute the mixer channel)
  • Pattern change at the end of the actual bar (not immediately), when pressing a pattern number in play mode
  • Ability to record the manual pattern changes in song play mode, so that the recently played patterns are shown in the pattern sequencer afterwards

Unfortunately, these topics were not implemented. But I must say that Rej provided hundreds of other good features instead!

 

derrtiblu
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Joined: 03/08/2014 - 23:00
Their is a third party of

Their is a third party of sorts within the community of caustic dat has development. Nothing more can be explain.

gregstull
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Joined: 02/25/2013 - 02:02
Periodically turn some knobs

Periodically turn some knobs that don't actually do anything in between checking your emails, I think that is the industry standard.

folkdisco
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Joined: 07/18/2014 - 19:32
IMHO Caustic is 50% brilliant

IMHO Caustic is 50% brilliant, and is 95% towards being 100% brilliant. They have categorically ruled out that last 5%. Go figure.
I am intrigued by derrtiblu's third party developments tho. Can you say more?
But as things stand, if you want live performance, or live composing, you simply, and unavoidably, have to look elsewhere. Why wait, when the correct tools are available now. See above.

justintime0185
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Joined: 12/13/2015 - 13:24
folkdisco, I'm actually

folkdisco, I'm actually talking from a general statement. Not caustic. I'm just looking for ideas on performing electronic live. Not using caustic live.

justintime0185
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Joined: 12/13/2015 - 13:24
Also, gregstull, bahaha. That

Also, gregstull, bahaha. That was perfect. xD

And the funny thing is, you're not necessarly wrong.

Thanks for taking the time to understand what I was trying to communicate. :P

I actually want to play an instrument with my live set up. Even get a drummer.

folkdisco
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Joined: 07/18/2014 - 19:32
Ah, playing a few loops,

Ah, playing a few loops, twiddling around on a laptop, and making that an engaging experience. There's a lot of people who just play prerecorded music, and then flail around a bit behind a keyboard. I want to be manipulating loops on a phone or tablet velcroed to the top of my guitar. Never quite got around to doing this with a live audience. Live, the technology has just got to actually work. The more you play with an audience, the better you get. Good luck.

justintime0185
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Joined: 12/13/2015 - 13:24
Ah thanks man. Do you use any

Ah thanks man. Do you use any hardware? I was thinking of using a roland sp-404sx for sampling (dont want use my laptop. That shit is expensive. Its my expensive baby. :P) and having a drummer and a lead keyboard. But i would want ro see what I can do on my own first.

gregstull
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Joined: 02/25/2013 - 02:02
My friend that books

My friend that books experimental/electronic shows has a plethora of videos of live performers:

https://www.youtube.com/user/actionresearchFL/videos

Maybe you can find some ideas in there..... but yeah this whole question has bugged me for years (most of my experience is drumming in rock bands).

justintime0185
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Joined: 12/13/2015 - 13:24
Bro, That rocks! Thank you. I

Bro, That rocks! Thank you. I'll check it out.

justintime0185
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Joined: 12/13/2015 - 13:24
Ah I see. I want my

Ah I see. I want my electronic project to be as authentic as possible in that it's more like a rock or metal band just performed with synth.

gregstull
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Joined: 02/25/2013 - 02:02
ok cool. So what would you

ok cool. So what would you loading into the sp404sx then?  also/similarly, do you want "real" drum sounds or "synth" drum sounds?

justintime0185
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Joined: 12/13/2015 - 13:24
I was thinking I could have a

I was thinking I could have a acoustic drummer and try electronic drums playing through a sampler. So a mixture of both.

On the sp404sx I would have the wobble bass samples that I use as sort of like, a rhythm guitar (Structurally anyway.), and a couple of other patterns and rhythm that the lead keyboardist can't play.

I would function as the sampler and the vocalist if I can't play lead as well. xD

folkdisco
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Joined: 07/18/2014 - 19:32
If people are playing along

If people are playing along with pre-recorded music or loops, they've got to be able to hear that, to play along. If I'm playing along, I want to hear more of that, and less of me. But the audience wants to hear more of me and less loops. I've got a home made little stereo amp. But I think to do the loops, I need another channel pointing up at me, playing just loops, and a mix of everything coming through the stereo. I think you might have similar but different problems. Some drummers are fine with a click, but it's a complicated business. Are you playing your samples along with the live drummer? Or is he synching up to your samples? If he's synching to you, he probably needs a separate out with a click on the music. You either chuck money at technology, or you go a bit ingenious. If it's just additional percussion, that's easier.

justintime0185
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Joined: 12/13/2015 - 13:24
To be honest, I haven't

To be honest, I haven't performed yet. These are all ideas and I'm waiting until I get studio monitors so I can finally finish my tracks before I try to play like live.

But I predicted that as a problem. The syncing. I would probably rely more on the drummer. Most tracks i have created though, have the acoustic drums more prominent than the electric.

17hex
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Joined: 01/07/2013 - 12:23
OK as a musician who has been

OK as a musician who has been performing live electronic music for around 20 years, I have one BIG piece of advice:  KEEP IT SIMPLE.
The number one law of live performance is Murphy's Law.  In other words, if something CAN go wrong it WILL go wrong.  the more buttoned down and bullet proof you can make your live setup, the more you can get into the performance, which is why people are there. 

Laptops are fine as long as you have your workflow on your laptop so nailed down that you can play it live like an instrument, or at least in some way be obviously part of the performance and not just a computer operator.   I have used Caustic live on phones and computers with MIDI control or just a touch screen several times, both for pre-recorded songs and live improv.  The workflow in caustic is simple enough that it works just fine as long as caustic works well on your device.     

So, to my point, focus on performance.  If something is not adding to your performance, get rid of it.  People don't generally know or care exactly how the sounds are made, and i've very much enjoyed shows i knew were 50%+ pre-recorded *because the musicians put on an entertaining performance*.   That's it.   Work out a workflow that allows you to PERFORM SOMETHING, whether it's live mixing, loop mangling, modular patching, knob twiddling/tweaking, live keys, whatever.  It doesn't matter.  Make interesting music and figure out a way to perform at least a substantial part of it, and people will be into it.

You said you have a live drummer. AWESOME.  Learn how to play along with the drummer, but in my experience it is WAY easier for the drummer to learn how to play along with your loops and NOT the other way around.  Syncing loops to a live drummer is hard and error prone.  A live drummer can easily play along with loops, even if they change a LOT.  Just work out your loop/whatever set, practice your TIMING of it, and your drummer will be just fine.  Also your band will look awesome with a live drummer and cool electronics on stage.  Sounds fun!

I hope this rambling helps  

justintime0185
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Joined: 12/13/2015 - 13:24
Hey, man! Thanks for the

Hey, man! Thanks for the advice! That's great. I was actually thinking last night 'Yknow, It's probably better if I just keep it simple and just use myself, a sampler, and a drummer. Because samplers can lead to some pretty cool sounds if you play with the effects.

I don't have a drummer yet but I was thinking of asking some friends in the future.

But yeah what you're saying definitely puts my fears at ease. I suppose I was worried whether or not people will see it as 'fake music' If there isn't a full set of instruments and stuff.

My girlfriend and I had discussion lately and she made the argument that when she sees a live show, the appeal for her is the risk to which I responded with 'what about producers or d's? Or launching sounds and stuff.' I think her perception of that has changed. But, yeah. I've been thinking of trying to perform mostly by myself by either launching sounds or re-creating some lead sounds on stage and then putting them through a sampler for the authentic sound.

Anyway, my girlfriend got me some studio monitors for Christmas. Quite happy about that. Going to try and perform as soon as I've properly mixed my tracks.

folkdisco
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Joined: 07/18/2014 - 19:32
Exactly what 17hex said! I'm

Exactly what 17hex said! I'm going to copy that and keep it on my phone. And your studio monitors... Your music might sound wonderful through those babies, but it's going to sound different in a live setting. Not necessarily worse, but just different. Always start with a song which has never and will never go wrong. Robust is a good thing. But like 17hex said, it's a performance, so perform. Good luck.

gregstull
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Joined: 02/25/2013 - 02:02
If you don't mind my asking,

If you don't mind my asking, which geographic region(s) are you intending to perform live in? Are you hoping to tour?

sdrummato
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Joined: 08/29/2017 - 22:07
I use Caustic in my live

I use Caustic in my live performances. I'm a one-man-band, i use a loop station in which I put acoustic guitar, voice, and the output from my tablet (with a small midi keyboard plugged). This way, I still play a lot live, and I use Caustic sometimes just for playing electronic instruments like synths, sometime for the sequencer mode, to play along with guitar. I like not to have the entire backing track, but a series of "region" in the songs, and I move between them setting up loops. This allows me to stay in a loop and modify parameters if i want, then remove the loop and let the song reach the end, or the next part. The reason i use Caustic is just that it's simpler this way. No midi controllers with knobs (so no need to map and to remember it), no pc. I can control everything from the touchscreen. Also i like the fact i can just set up different projects, and move between them rapidly.

justintime0185
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Joined: 12/13/2015 - 13:24
Hey gregstull. I live in

Hey gregstull. I live in Canada, Ottawa Ontario. 

​And yes I'm hoping to tour just a little bit in the future for funzies.          

 

sdrummato, thats a good idea. :) 
​I don't really intend on using caustic for live. I might try and get accustomed to ableton or some other sampler program. Or just get a sampler. I would like to learn how to play an instrument through some sort of looper so i can at least use some synths and then play them back easily. That is a good idea though if the set isn't too crazy and is minimal. I might try that on a future ep. The album i'm working on is almost finished and unfortunately how I composed the songs, theres a lot going on. I do want to go for a more minimalist approach next time. 

 

folkdisco
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Joined: 07/18/2014 - 19:32
Recorded music and live music

Recorded music and live music are very different animals.

folkdisco
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Joined: 07/18/2014 - 19:32
Caustic is specifically not

Caustic is specifically not set up for live use. Mike's live thing, working on caustic files will probably come out some time. The previews do look nice. G Stomper, on Android and IOS, is set out like a hands on looping groovebox. There's more of a learning curve than Caustic, but it's very powerful, is specifically designed for live interactive play, and is available now. That would give you a lot more flexibility and power than hardware samplers, and at a MUCH lower cost point. There are also things like ufxloops, and more simplistic sample pad players. I went pretty far into hardware loopers, but then decided it was too limited. Loop playback, with a load of flexibility, and ability to mess around with prerecorded loops, and play over the top of them, works better for me. But it's definitely good if different people have different solutions.