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Endvisible
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Joined: 07/17/2014 - 14:18
Long-Overdue Message / Request

Okay, before I start this, I want to get some stuff out of the way. There won't be a TL;DR, so just read it or ignore it.

1. I am not begging for an update, nor do I expect one. Rej owes us nothing because this is his software, and we are lucky for him to have made it.

2. I am not attacking anyone with this post, so don't defend anything on moral grounds.

3. I love and respect Caustic just as much as, if not more than, the next guy, and would never comment on it without good intentions.

4. I understand that I'm not a "power-user" here, and I'm not personally close to Rej, so I'm not gonna act like it. I just want those who are (you know who you are) to hear me out and understand that I'm saying all this with nothing but good in mind. We're all people here, and people are all equal, regardless of their fame among the community.

Now.

I've been using Caustic for years now, and I've made it very clear that this is my go-to audio software. I use it for music, sound effects, and even audio-adjustments when I stutter in voice recordings. I've learned a lot of ins and outs from Rej's videos, and I've experimented on my own as well. When I joined the community officially, I was younger, and I was impatient. I was one of those people who made a few feature requests, and I was one of those people who asked about updates.

I understand that there's more possibilities in Caustic than I could learn in just a few years, but we can, for the most part, agree that there are also ways Caustic can be improved. Even simple improvements can work wonders. We've witnessed small adjustments and how they can improve the software, such as automating tempo, an input plugin for the modular synth, etc.

The site's been more-or-less dead for the past few months, with only a few legitimate bits of news, and none of them are actually about Caustic. Don't get me wrong, I'm very interested in everyone's big projects. New apps, plugins, preset packs, skins, and even synths and drum pads. All of these things are great, but there's one thing I, and probably a few others, want to see.

I want to see a post that explains why there's been such a hiatus. Here's what I (think) I know:

- Rej is a father, and his wife and kids come first.
- Rej has another job besides development, and that takes up his time.

Here's what I think, but don't want to be true:

- It seems that Rej has either lost inspiration for Caustic, or has lost interest in it in general.
- It also seems that the community has dispersed, and there's a lot less about Caustic on this site than there has been in a while.
- Nobody knows what to do for the future of Caustic, so we're just calling it a day. Forever.

Here's what I want to be true:

- Both the community and development of Caustic are just in a slow period, and nobody knows what to do next with it, so we're waiting on some groundbreaking idea.
- There will be a post from somebody explaining what's been going on, and we'll move forward soon.

Personally, I understand that Rej owes us nothing, but wouldn't it be nice if he'd just dash our hopes already? It isn't hard to sit down for a few minutes and say, "Hey, I know you all like this thing I made, but I'm really busy right now, so I can't work on it for a while," so what happened?

Look, here's a bit of comparison to make my point clearer.

I love Neutral Milk Hotel. Their last official album was released in 1998. They still have a thriving fanbase, they've done a couple of tours, and they've released a demo album. All of that's pretty nice, but overall, Jeff Magnum said they might never release another song or album.
Basically the fanbase of NMH has the mentality of, "Move on, it's over," so will somebody just tell us whether or not we need to do that with Caustic?

Should I stop thinking about Caustic, stop asking questions, stop wanting an answer, and just move on? Because if yes to all that, that sucks. Could somebody finally just say that Caustic isn't getting any more updates, or does nobody know? Does Rej have any more plans for Caustic? I'm done holding these questions off out of fear that someone's gonna get condescending and say I need to "stop whining."

Look, we're all adults here, and we can talk like adults. I would love an answer, and if someone will tell me what they know, I'd love that too.

Thing's I would not appreciate:

"Rej doesn't owe you anything." < I literally said this more than once.
"Caustic is good enough as it is." < I understand this, and this isn't my point.
"Caustic is already really powerful." < I understand this, and this isn't my point.
"Find another software." < Believe me, I've looked everywhere.
"Stop complaining." < This isn't a complaint. I'm asking for some kind of conclusion.
"(insert condescending message)" < Nobody is better than anybody else.

There are three answers I will accept wholeheartedly:

"Yes, Caustic will have future development."
"No, Caustic is finished."
"Nobody knows, not even Rej, so just be patient."

Bonus points for your answer if you are Rej, or if you are close enough to him to know.

-

Look. People hate not knowing things. Don't get mad at me for being human.

23magick@gmail.com
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Joined: 07/06/2018 - 01:53
It's called having a life.

It's called having a life. Maybe you should move on and accept the possibility that there may never be an answer for what you expect?

RobFarley
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Joined: 11/02/2013 - 16:43
This is actually a decent

This is actually a decent post. And yes, I agree with pretty much all your points. It would be nice to get a statement of intent from Rej just so we know where we stand.

I've used caustic from version 1, had a lot of fun with it and continue to enjoy it. I am starting to feel I'm outgrowing it though and the power of mobile hardware should allow caustic to improve, certainly with some of the optimisation (or shortcuts) Rej has implemented to save clock cycles.

We shall see what we see, but I too have felt the forum (and community) is dying which is a damn shame. Roll back to when caustic was actively updated (a couple of years now) and it was a pool of ideas and sharing.

Endvisible
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Joined: 07/17/2014 - 14:18
@23magic - I understand what

@23magic - I understand what you're saying, but that's what I was doing for a long time. The last time I posted about the situation was probably last year, when the hiatus started.

@RobFarley - I appreciate the understanding. I don't want to look back a few more years ahead and say, "It was fun while it lasted," y'know?
Luckily, to date, Caustic is still more powerful than almost every mobile DAW out there, with any exceptions yet unseen by me, plus it's at an extremely affordable price.

Here's a question that nagged at me while I was writing my post, but didn't go with it. Isn't the source code for Caustic released somewhere?

YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIosukcFX-HlQxLLEa41Fug

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RobFarley
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Joined: 11/02/2013 - 16:43
"Here's a question that

"Here's a question that nagged at me while I was writing my post, but didn't go with it. Isn't the source code for Caustic released somewhere?"

No, it's not open source software. However, I think Rej is in a strong position to if he ever decided enough was enough to either sell the source to a person / company to continue development or indeed just open source it.

Who knows what the future holds, but I think it would be a damn shame for the source code to just rot on Rej's hard disk.

 

mike
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Joined: 12/18/2011 - 15:53
Well regardless of source

Well regardless of source code, I continue to make apps with the sound engine.

A sound engine is a sound engine and it's what you do around the audio stream that makes for different things.

You know how many VSTs are just romplers with different UIs? A good chunk of the free VSTs probably use the same open source DSP code that is online.

(My crappy web moderator hat on) I have never spoke for Rej, but I am proving how flexible Caustic's sound engine and sequencers are.

My latest app using Caustic;

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.teotigraphix.drumpadbeats

PS:

There is a change coming to Android in Novemeber that affects ALL updates to apps and that is permission handling at runtime. Rej does a crap load of File IO and I know this affects him if he was to release an update.

Point is, that is a lot of work to get his Android code working with the Async runtime permissions that Google is requiring for the build SDK (Android Oreo)

James
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Joined: 01/21/2013 - 07:09
On a separate but partly

On a separate but partly related topic, the full desktop version of Cakewalk is completely free now if like Rob, you suspect you've finally outgrown Caustic and want a more fully featured DAW...I'd almost consider buying a Surface Pro if I went down that route as I mainly make tunes lying on my back on the sofa or bed!

The forum / community is dying - the updates helped to keep the momentum and excitement going - it's definitely not the case that there's any new pretender to the throne, on Android at least, unless it's a ridiculously well kept secret. 

But I think the whole thing was making Rej ill and misanthropic to the point where he just needed to walk away, and that's his right too.

kwfkaymfb
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Joined: 01/29/2016 - 14:13
He created a monster

He created a monster

Endvisible
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Joined: 07/17/2014 - 14:18
It’s gotten to a point where

It’s gotten to a point where I only check in to see what everyone’s doing and update people on my own projects. I’m glad I made this post, ‘cause it seemed like there was no one asking the right questions. People were asking for updates, calling Caustic abandonware, and putting in requests, but I had only been wondering whether or not we’ll ever know about Caustic’s future.

I’m still not going anywhere; I’ll be checking in and taking part in the discussions still, and I hope everyone will do the same! You all are great musicians, and have helped me a lot in the past, so thanks everyone!

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drewz
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Joined: 05/16/2016 - 13:57
I've been merging over to

I've been merging over to Fruity Loops but they still have some catching up to do. Oh well ¯\(º_o)/¯

Rej - Dev
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Joined: 12/18/2011 - 15:52
Here I go for my "bonus

Here I go for my "bonus points", I'm pretty sure I've answered this before but it's ok if you haven't found the precise comment where I did, I probably couldn't find it again either.

It's a bit of a burn-out, yeah. Development only scales so well until it becomes too much. I know you might think it's a good problem to have but at some point the app becomes popular enough and has enough users that support becomes unsustainable. Like, it doesn't make enough to hire someone to do support, but it has sold enough that I now have 15+ emails a day for random support requests - which I try to answer, especially if there's a problem with a key purchase even though it's always on Google's end - or feature requests, which I now have ignore or I'd get nothing else done. Same goes for this website, I used to spend 2 hours a day answering posts and I made a choice to slash that. I appreciate those of you have stuck around and are answering questions here.

I want to be motivated at the thought of a new version but I'm simply not. Oh and for all the work I put into 3.2, it made sweet FA difference in my sales and that was eye-opening. It's basically saying, you can release an update or not, your sales won't change... so I took the hint.

I've also started on a new app development project which has nothing to do with audio, just because I needed a break and keep myself interested in programming again. It will soon be released but the chances of any of you guys caring about it are about 0% so I've not discussed it here. I know it would just attract negative comments on "why I'm doing that instead of Caustic 3.3 / 4.0", etc.

Mastering will happen soon and that'll be my return to audio apps in the next few months.

On a personal/family front, we bought a bigger house a few years ago but it's old and requires me spending time on odd jobs, renos etc. My youngest will also be starting school in Jan which hopefully means a more steady work schedule for me.

 

Honestly, I hope you're still getting enjoyment out of the app but if there's something new under the sun you'd rather use, go for it. No one owes me anything and vice-versa.

 

 

RobFarley
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Joined: 11/02/2013 - 16:43
I'm sure with you but

I'm sure with you but answering here it's going to open up to a million questions, but here goes!

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, if you are done with caustic then why not sell or open source the code, or are you still getting a trickle of sales pocket money?

I appreciate there's a whole load of legal shenanigans in doing so (especially if you want to protect the existing user base from being screwed over) but you could then at least pass the mantle and see where your baby goes.

Anyway, pleased you're alive and well, when I wrote my first computer game as a job it stopped being 'fun' quite quickly and totally turned me off coding for fun, after squeezing out another (painful that it was) I pretty much hung up my fun coding gloves. It's just what I do at work now, home and family life trumps writing games! That said, I am getting an itch to get back into it now!

Anyway, be well.

Rej - Dev
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Joined: 12/18/2011 - 15:52
Well I never said I was done

Well I never said I was done with Caustic, did I?  I'm not closing that door.

I suppose I'd sell the project if I got a decent offer but I doubt that would happen, I think historically it's pretty rare (apart from the obvious scam emails I receive constantly about it, mass mailed to each of my apps' contact emails).

No plans to open-source as the app still sells a few copies a day and I think I deserve to paid for the work I've put in over the years. And likeI said I don't want to close off any doors, I still have ideas about a Caustic 4 re-write, just one of many ideas that bounce in and out of my head... 

I guess I just don't see it as such a huge issue as some. Maybe I'm old and out of touch but I still use software everyday that hasn't been updated in years (or it was but I'd still use the old version if it hadn't). Mobile apps have brough about this expectation of constant updates...I mean it's a tool... I haven't updated my hammer since I bought it, still drives nails just fine. I'm probably just pissing people off at this point so I'll shut up.

 

RobFarley
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Joined: 11/02/2013 - 16:43
If you're not done with it

If you're not done with it then definitely hang onto it and with a trickle of cash coming in from new sales then all good.

I have no expectation of where caustic is going, I've been using it since version 1 and still absolutely love it. My only concern is as mobile power increases your optimisations to make caustic work on low end hardware might be showing up as cracks in the audio quality.

I know I'm not comparing apples with apples but was having a play on Ableton and just the simplest of sounds seemed to have a sonically more rich signature over caustic that relatively sounded a bit flat. Now I appreciate this is an unfair comparison but you get my point.

RobFarley
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Joined: 11/02/2013 - 16:43
Anyway, go have some fun with

Anyway, go have some fun with your app... Make a remix of Blue Monday! It is Monday after all!

http://www.singlecellsoftware.com/node/17610

mike
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Joined: 12/18/2011 - 15:53
Heh, no comment.

Heh, no comment. smiley

This needs a pin. Thanks Rej for gracing the Welcome mat again. :)

Caustic 4, is that real?! HAHA (That is the ticket, no more free updates!)

Endvisible
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Joined: 07/17/2014 - 14:18
Hey Rej, I appreciate your

Hey Rej, I appreciate your response, and it's great to at least know more about the situation.

I completely understand the burn-out; we've all had it before, and it would definitely become a hassle dealing with support emails on a regular basis. We all appreciate the work you've put in to do so.

I won't ask you to describe this new project if you aren't comfortable sharing it here, but is there anything you're willing to tell? (I promise I won't get mad, haha)

To be completely honest, I've been trying out Cakewalk, which was mentioned eariler, but it's quite the complicated piece of work. I haven't done much with VSTs or window-based DAWs, so I'll be making music with Caustic for quite  a while whilst I figure it out.

Hell, that new version of Caustic might be out by the time I've half-learned how to operate Cakewalk (to put it in perspective).

Anyway, thanks for the replies, everyone, and I'll be sticking around as-per-usual!

YouTube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIosukcFX-HlQxLLEa41Fug

Soundcloud:

https://soundcloud.com/endvisible

Instagram & Twitter - @endvisible 

SToons Music
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Joined: 03/01/2018 - 02:48
"Hell, that new version of

"Hell, that new version of Caustic might be out by the time I've half-learned how to operate Cakewalk (to put it in perspective)."

I've been using Cakewalk since its inception. There are several ways to make it very much like working in Caustic. It also comes with some fairly powerful built in stuff so you don't have to just jump into using VSTs and other 3rd party plugins.

If you ever want some help getting started let me know. FWIW, everything on my SoundCloud page that isn't from the past few months add is pretty obviously Caustoc is Cakewalk (long story...still have Cakewalk but...), anyways, only two pieces of music software I've ever owned.

Tools are just tools.

wesleystyles
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Joined: 08/09/2015 - 16:58
start a small cult like group

start a small cult like group for caustic. have them do some advertising.we all represent caustic with our music. if we all just talk to others about it that would push caustic to grow as not only as a app but as community! at one point or another everyone wants to play an instrument piano being a big one. everyone has phones or tablets that's part of the job! big buttons for the old and young. you can teach people twinkle twinkle little star im sure. in doing so you can give them the gift of music!

and a section of presets for the sawsyth would be cool! so far people are doing some crazy things with it!

bastien
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Joined: 08/21/2016 - 10:39
hello

hello

 

I absolutely understand Rej and respect his decision.
Pressure can be real painful and lead to depression. Please take care of you and your family!

 

regards

Bastien

azkha0018
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Joined: 05/09/2018 - 02:13
Hi, Rej I've been using

Hi, Rej I've been using Caustic now for 5 months. You even answered my emails personally when I had problems with my file. Really appreciate your efforts tho your burnt out. And. I will love Caustic forever. This app opened for me the gate of producing. And I'm contended with the app. Please take care of yourself and your family.