18 posts / 0 new
Last post
photon
Offline
Joined: 12/18/2014 - 12:46
Akai MPK Mini MK2 - 'Program Change' vs 'Program Select'

Hi,

I am seeking a better understanding of the differences, and importantly, the usage of 'Program Changes' as opposed to 'Program Select' on the Akai MPK Mini MK2, especially in Caustic 3, of course. I don't quite get the distinction and how to use Program Changes.

I have the MPK Mini Editor, and my controller is functional on my Android device.

Thanks for any insights, and/or links.

Cheers.

James
James's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/21/2013 - 07:09
Caustic's midi support is

Caustic's midi support is relatively straight forward and covers playing Caustic machines, with corresponding note and velocity data, and controlling most front panel machine parameters (if you map the controls via midi CC learning).

You can also control the two 7 channel mixers (one at a time) and you get basic transport controls too (stop, play etc.). You can't trigger any patch / preset changes with your controller or save any midi data that would enable you to trigger patch / preset changes in another DAW.

It's possible that Program Change and Program Select enable you to create, store and load different controller configs (for example, I used the Akai LDP8 editor to ensure that the 8 pads were mapped to the correct note range for the Caustic Beatbox) but I'm not sure what extra functionality or utility this would give you when instrument / controller mapping can be handled with the Caustic CC mapping.

photon
Offline
Joined: 12/18/2014 - 12:46
Thanks for the reply, James.

Thanks for the reply, James.

"You can't trigger any patch / preset changes with your controller " That's what I had found, and was hoping to find a workaround.

 I'm limited to 8 knobs (1 of which I always CC map to Volume), and 8 pads (3 of which I mapped to CC Transport). I was hoping that there was another way to expand the number of parameters I could access. I still feel that there is a way of looking at this that I'm missing.

paulovski
paulovski's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/19/2012 - 06:13
Right, hang on a minute.

Right, hang on a minute. Caustic machines respond to MIDI program changes sent from a controller. You just can't record such events into the sequencer.

I've got a mark 1 and I've just been sending program changes with it, so yours should. You might need to set this up with the editing software.

The MPK programs are internal memories of your controller. You can set your knobs and pads to send a set of CCs on one program, and another, different set on another. And so on. You can, just about cover all of the controls of a subsynth with one of these things.

photon
Offline
Joined: 12/18/2014 - 12:46
Hi paulovski,

Hi paulovski,

I realize what you are saying. Perhaps I'm not expressing myself clearly or I'm usiing the wrong terminology.

I'm hoping to send patches to, say, Subsynth, with a set of preset parameters. I'm thinking of them as 'Patches' and assuming that the Akai MPK Mini MK2 can send them thru its 'Program Changes', but I don't see how to set this up, in this case for Caustic.

paulovski
paulovski's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/19/2012 - 06:13
OK. How have you got MIDI

OK. How have you got MIDI options set up in Caustic?

photon
Offline
Joined: 12/18/2014 - 12:46
I've got 'Midi Device

I've got 'Midi Device Controls On-Screen Instrument' as it seemed to work best for me. (but I'm not attached ;> )  )

I also just ran across a thread:   http://www.singlecellsoftware.com/node/4012   Was it implemeted?

paulovski
paulovski's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/19/2012 - 06:13
Let's just check what you're

Let's just check what you're trying to do. If you send a MIDI program change to a subsynth, you will change the preset.

If you're trying to send a bunch of CCs all at once from your controller, as if it were a preset, then no. It won't do that.

paulovski
paulovski's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/19/2012 - 06:13
The old thread. If you put

The old thread. If you put the presets you want to access via MIDI in a subfolder, then load one of them up in Caustic, those presets are the ones you can get to via MIDI. And that hierarchy gets saved in the song file.

photon
Offline
Joined: 12/18/2014 - 12:46
I don't see how I can change

I don't see how I can change Presets thru MIDI. I can swipe thru them with my BT mouse, but I don't see a CC option for the Presets.

How would that be done? and, again, thanks for your responses.

paulovski
paulovski's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/19/2012 - 06:13
You're welcome :)

You're welcome :)

You don't change presets with CCs. MIDI program changes are a different kind of message.

Try this. It should just work. Press the program change button in the 'pad controls' section. Then press the pads. 

James
James's picture
Offline
Joined: 01/21/2013 - 07:09
Thanks Paulovski - every day

Thanks Paulovski - every day I find something that doesn't quite work the way I thought it did laugh

I knew you couldn't record preset changes in a Caustic song file as I remember someone asking Rej the same question along time ago.

I hadn't realised that that didn't stop Caustic recieving the message and changing the loaded preset.

photon
Offline
Joined: 12/18/2014 - 12:46
Thanks, I am trying this out,

Thanks, I am trying this out, with mixed results so far.

Program Change seems to cycle thru a limited group of the presets in a given folder for a given synth, alphabetically, but occasionalky in reverse alphabetical, and, not all the presets in the folder. I'm trying (between real-life pressures) to nail this behavior down.

paulovski
paulovski's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/19/2012 - 06:13
You're welcome James :)

You're welcome James :)

@Photon. There are 128 program changes available via MIDI. A lot of controllers have dedicated buttons to cycle through them all. The MPK mini isn't one of them. When in ' program change' mode, each pad sends a particular program change number. You can set up which number that is in the MPK editing software. You have two banks of eight pads and four memories, so you can set up access to 64 of them.

photon
Offline
Joined: 12/18/2014 - 12:46
That is very helpful; a

That is very helpful; a simple breakdown of the relationship between the Programs and the Program Change capabilities. Now I have an overview of how they play together which also makes the preinstalled Programs make better sense.

Thanks for that.

paulovski
paulovski's picture
Offline
Joined: 09/19/2012 - 06:13
Up and running? Cool :)

Up and running? Cool :)

photon
Offline
Joined: 12/18/2014 - 12:46
Not quite yet, thanks.

Not quite yet, thanks.

There is some discrepancy between what I program in MPK Editor, and what Caustic is receiving. Some things work, but not all; still trying to pin down what's happening there.

In part, it depends on how I disconnect the Akai MPK Mini MK2 from my device. I must move focus from Caustic (either with Home, or right click with mouse Exit>Yes) then close the app on the device, then disconnect the Mini. Any other way seems to screw with the programming, occasionally requiring an Android device Restart. Also, if left with Caustic up and running with the Mini attached, after a while Caustic will crash as well.

So... I'm still working out the variables to get a consistent workflow.

photon
Offline
Joined: 12/18/2014 - 12:46
Seems like every session, the

Seems like every session, the  Akai program numbers are different. I can't figure why.