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mike
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Caustic Warriors :: Need your input (Mike's question) Modular

Hey all very important question;

What are your favorite Modular synth presets, post as many as you like (names) and why you like them.

Also, Rej and I are kicking around a pretty big idea, In the stolen words of Rob

"Only expose certain knobs to the end user so instead of having a veritable clusterfuck of wires and knobs you have 3 knobs (or whatever) to adjust to colour the sound."

I would be the developer of the desktop and mobile app that would create/manager this "thing".

One other thing: Who would hate the idea of loading a custom synth that would not coincide with their chosen "custom skin" theme. I told Rej IMHO this would be no different than loading a VST into a DAW.

Mike

caustic replay
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BREAKER RV.  Used in

BREAKER RV.  Used in Community Jam 2 by HerveB.  It just shreds.  Hard, gritty, it's just awesome.  I've used it quite a bit.

Would this thing you want to program be seamlessly compatible between desktop and mobile app?  Not sure if I'm understanding the plan.

RobFarley
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Dirty and Dirty Punch... Just

Dirty and Dirty Punch... Just proper bass nastiness

I don't know what a noodle synth editor is.

If by your noodles you mean its a mod synth editor and you only expose certain knobs to the end user so instead of having a veritable clusterfuck of wires and knobs you have 3 knobs (or whatever) to adjust to colour the sound then I support your choice of cuisine.

I use the default skin. If couldn't care less as long as its usable.

mike
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Basically custom modular

Basically custom modular synth layout that would load as a preset in Caustic, so yes it would be 100% compatible.

You would "make a synth" in my program, save it to preset. Say you tak what makes up the Acid preset, use three of the knobs, lay them out make a custom background and knob skins. Save it with my program and load it up in Caustic.

This is a VERY VERY prototype idea but I think it could be big if done right.

Rej and I were trying to think if it would be worth it.

Mike

mike
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Nodal is connect components

Nodal is connect components together in a flow chart graph like manner. (this would be phase two of the desktop part if I did this.

"If by your noodles you mean its a mod synth editor and you only expose certain knobs to the end user so instead of having a veritable clusterfuck of wires and knobs you have 3 knobs (or whatever) to adjust to colour the sound them I support it."

EXACTLY ROB. wink

Mike

RobFarley
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I'm sure I asked for this as

I'm sure I asked for this as a feature request a moon or two ago!

So cool!

celebzooz
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Fm saw,I have used that

Fm saw,I have used that preset so much lately.

And yeah,I think the modular manger(or mm)would be a great i

edgey
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Sounds great.  If you can

Sounds great.  If you can load presets back into the "nodal" editor for further adjustments then I cant see custom skins being a problem.

Have a good think about the mobile implementation.  It would be a shame to "have" to use a desktop.

Could you have a lot more than 12 modular slots?

Could you make extra modular elements, so you could nest modular synth inside another modular synth?

Could all elements be driven by other elements (bitwig style) so you can attach an lfo to a parameter knob, instead of an input socket?

Can it be polyphonic?

 

mike
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Folks, scratch what I said

Folks, scratch what I said about the editor, I over stepped what I wanted to know about.

Rob summed it up and I am going to edit my initial post with his words, thanks Rob.

We are talking about a machine in Caustic, so its a Modular synth that is mono but could edit a preset that used machine inputs.

There is no shame in using the desktop for this because starting off it would be for those using a photoshop like program to create a custom "face plate" as Rej puts it for a modular preset.

Only after the success of a desktop interface would I move to a mobile impl of the same type.

Mike

mike
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> Could all elements be

> Could all elements be driven by other elements (bitwig style) so you can attach an lfo to a parameter knob, instead of an input socket?

I wish but this has nothing to do with function in Caustic, it is hiding complexities of a modular patch with a candy ui and more sound design specific control user interface for the end user.

Mike

haskdx
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if understand right you mean

if understand right you mean with your program we can create a preset and give an a interface to it , like create a new instrument ?

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mike
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> if understand right you

> if understand right you mean with your program we can create a preset and give an a interface to it , like create a new instrument ?

Yes, as I told Rej, imagine Korg gadget where they have one synth that "has a sound" using specific oscillators/envelopes/effects etc. They also have a custom UI look to go with "that sound".

This is what we are talking about, so yes it would be a new "virtual synth" based off a modular backend preset. Where you could create a skin for the face plate and knobs/etc. These details will be worked out if this project is popular enough and I can convince Rej people would use it. Because Rej would need to add logic that loads and lays this stuff out when a preset like this is loaded.

Mike

haskdx
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like vsts instruments each

like vsts instruments each have their ui different fro daw ui :) seem to like fun and interesting also becouse i like skin the things :) when should be avaible an alpha test ? :D

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mike
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Heh, well this is just in its

Heh, well this is just in its infancy right now. Although I know I can code something that will run in Windows in not that long of time frame. But before I site down and majorly start a design for the editor, I wanted to have a public forum about the idea since Rej DID have a couple reservations about it and one of them was, would people use it because it's really just wrapping a modular synth preset.

Mike

mike
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Also note; things on the back

Also note; things on the back of a preset (the wire side) could with this design be put on the front. So thinking about it that way, you could have a really interesting palette.

Alot of new users don't even touch the rear panel but if you the sound designer knew that a knob or switch could affect the sound in a positive way, it could be added on the front.

I would also suggest to Rej that these custom synths be read-only on the module side, you you wouldn't be able to add or remove components.

Mike

haskdx
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if you want help for the

if you want help for the program design i can be here  :)

other thing i will ask you is if this ui modify will cover all from the background to the position of knob and size of this (very big work for rej ) or will work on the default base of modular just load a custom image on preset switch ?

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mike
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Well basically Rej told me in

Well basically Rej told me in his view that it would have a custom background, custom controls and then a file (created by my program) that told his app where to layout the custom controls.

So to answer you, yes the front would be full custom design, the back would stay as it is since it's just a modular preset in the end.

Yes I would be glad to incorporate you in the design for the desktop editor. Also, the framework I use will allow use to use the same "app code" and make a mobile editor down the road (Drag and drop style) once we have the initial design working on the desktop.

Mike

haskdx
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awnsome full customization :)

awnsome full customization :)

 

thanks mike for opportunity when you need just send me a mail :) i have already in my mind an idea to give a little help for make more fun for all user :)

 

//incredible how you make easy traspose ideas in code  :)

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While I do love the idea of

While I do love the idea of being able to create presets with out having to use samples I probably wouldn't use it if its on pc only. I've already started looking at apps on gps that give a lot ability to shape sounds and export those sounds as wavs. I'm trying to be less dependent on my laptop and more on my tablet.

DF

 

 

 

mike
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@dfrenette

@dfrenette

Read a couple posts up. My end game goal is to have an app on Android that can assemble these face plates/synths on a tablet.

Due to the MAJOR complexity of this, I need to start on the desktop, get the core of the app framework written. The thing is, I use an open gl ui layer which means I can run that exact same application using the same code on a mobile device where I only change the UI. But with a little majic OOP programming I can have both worlds at the same time.

So although the beginning of the project is on the desktop, I want it on a tablet.
 

@haskdx No problem, once I talk to Rej one more time about this I have quite a bit of time I will spend on it. I have an idea to that I will use for the first prototype and that is to recreate the subsynth using this editor. I already have a patch made that simulates the subsynth and its 2 osc/lfo/filter setup.

Mike

 

RobFarley
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OK, for starters I would like

OK, for starters I would like a big pink machine (with daisys around the outside of it) with a big knob in the middle marked 'fluffy' that goes from 0-11 and at 11 its pure evil grunge and at 0 it's smooth.

Thanks in advance.

RobFarley
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On a slightly more serious

On a slightly more serious note is the modular going to be extended past what can currently be done within Caustic. More slots, more components etc as you won't be limited by UI restraints.

mike
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Right Rob, you get the idea,

Right Rob, you get the idea, this could be really fun. What you said is exactly why I think this project could be great for caustic down the road. That kind of off the wall customization could get addicting.

Mike

mike
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HAHA Dude, I thought about

HAHA Dude, I thought about asking Rej this but I did NOT want to open that can of worms. :) I guess you did.

IMHO I would say since the synth is locked and never editable expect in the editor application, I could see Rej saying yeah go ahead and make more work for me. :) Seriously though I don't want to ask Rej for things not in the scope of his time availibility or asking for things that complicate his life.

Rej and I talked about something that would use existing OSC and setups... so there. cheeky

BTW; The OSC messages for the modular are setup on the grid presented in the UI so Rej uses this model under the covers (because of signal flow), so this would be a feature wish down the road at best man.

Mike

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Also extending this idea

Also extending this idea further, could one of these machines actually use multiple slots, I.e. be a pcm (as the source sound) and a modular adding fx on top?

mike
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> Also extending this idea

> Also extending this idea further, could one of these machines actually use multiple slots, I.e. be a pcm (as the source sound) and a modular adding fx on top?

To complex for now Rob, I know your mind wants to go but we need to keep it in the scope of what Caustic does right now in 3.1.

That being said, there should be no reason the custom synth couldn't have machine sockets (MachineInput components). This would greatly expand something. But I am going to stick with the simple Hello SubSynth recreation first.

Mike

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Modular : Complex and Faded

Modular : Complex and Faded Clarity 2. Both lovely with some long notes combined together. I don't really understand what's being suggested, but that's just me, not you. So I'll read up and get back to you :-) 

mike
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@Barking_Mad In laymans terms

@Barking_Mad In laymans terms. Rej and I had talked about months ago having a way that the modular front panel could be simplified based on preset arrangements.

This means I create an editor on the desktop that has a control pallet that allows people like you to drag and drop control elements on to a layout grid.

You can specify a background based on your grid. Basically you would create the background after you have laid out your control elements.

You ask: "How do I know what elements I have to work with?"

I answer: You will load an existing preset you created in Caustic from the modular synth and I parse it, find all the controls it has available then present this to you as a list of accessible control elements in the editor UI. From there you can chose to drag them in.

I have had huge experience with these types of editor apps, I have basically made a clone of Fireworks before with layers and everything.

I can already see this from start to end on the editor side, so I will probably get working on a prototype sooner than later.

Mike

derrtiblu
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i'm a clean and vintage.

i'm a clean and vintage. although. there is no modular synth add of clean i look for as close two a real sound as possible. first!! and then i work from there. maybe resonant, i've only poke at this synth and got a couple song ideas started.  but i like what i did. and my above is where i was most focused on.

Jason
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I had a feeling something was

I had a feeling something was going to surface regarding the Modular..... which is very exciting because I will incorporate any new feature into my Builderz Pro content pack which I aim to change the way we use Caustic in a whole new way.....

I'm giddy with anticipation and expectation.... wink

James
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I think the idea is to use

I think the idea is to use the Modular synth to create a bunch of synths that have a relatively locked down UI and specific purpose - like the current Bassline in form and function - to speed up 'pick and playability' and to lessen the learning curve and fear factor associated with the Mod synth for new users...

 

mike
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@James Yeah I know the idea

@James Yeah I know the idea has in many sizes and shapes been passed around. In all honesty, this is a challenge to myself and my programming to see if I can pull it off. I can see in my head what it could be if I do it right.

Mike

RobFarley
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Actually James makes a good

Actually James makes a good point. I was thinking it would have the floaty keyboard like the mod but actually a fixed keyboard so it looks like the bassline would be excellent.

Jason
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Perhaps, Mike, if you show us

Perhaps, Mike, if you show us a picture of what this looks like, might make it a bit more understandable.  I'm slightly confused, but perhaps I am thinking too hard about it....

mike
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There is no picture right now

There is no picture right now. In due time, this is an application to help creative visual/sound designers carve out a little piece of caustic for themselves.

Its really simple. More later.

Mike

mike
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Ok for those, this is a

Ok for those, this is a HORRID example BUT I think it gets the point across of this whole thread.

So you loaded the ACID.modularsynth prest into my editor, dnd some controls at sizes, created a background in gimp or photoshop, then packaged it all back up into a new synth preset.

Causticness : Cutoff

Metal : Saturation Amount

Shine : Resonance

Trippy : Waveform + Decay

Load the preset into Caustic and you get the below. cool

Mike

Was this

Barking_Mad
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Ok i understand now. I like

Ok i understand now. I like the idea :)

haskdx
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 thing i want to keep is the

 thing i want to keep is the possibilty to switch form ui to normal synh to change the link or add new module

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mike
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Nope that is not going to

Nope that is not going to happen on this first go around. These are readon-only(it makes sense maybe they could be saved as another preset of the same type) presets that will not be able to do that right now.

The more I fool with this the more I see it as a VST. You cannot access the modular under the VST unless you are in edit mode. Caustic will not have an edit mode only the editor.

We must KISS in the beginning.

Mike

haskdx
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in this way we lost the

in this way we lost the possibliets to know how a sound is done , when i find a preset i like i like also see how.is maked or add something can make sound better , but wait to see an alpha to see how looks:)

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mike
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> in this way we lost the

> in this way we lost the possibliets to know how a sound is done ,

Not really because I am actually developing this a mobile first app(changed my mind), so anybody that wants to can have the app open next to caustic and save it to a normal modularsynth preset from my app, then they can load it in caustic.

For now, keep thinking about this as VST and sound designers like having their cover over the instrument, sometimes its fun to have the mystique of not knowing what is going on under the hood. cheeky

Mike

stePH
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[I would like a big pink

[I would like a big pink machine (with daisys around the outside of it) with a big knob in the middle marked 'fluffy' that goes from 0-11 and at 11 its pure evil grunge and at 0 it's smooth]

WANT.

caustic replay
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So now we will have the

So now we will have the ability to create custom 'Boss Stompbox'-style equivalents for Caustic.  That's what it looks like to me.

smiley

paulovski
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I'm missing something

I'm missing something fundamental here. How do you get these things into the rack?

mike
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My application will save the

My application will save the synth as a custom preset. Rej will then have the Caustic app load a Modular preset.

So you must add a Modular to the rack, the load the synth preset, easy as 1, 2. laugh

Mike

paulovski
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Ah, I see. Sounds cool to me 

Ah, I see. Sounds cool to me smiley

skarabee
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I like the idea. for end

I like the idea. for end users, it will look like a new toy, and for the builder, the ability to put on the same face only the desired controls will help for clarity and the skinning can also add some explicit names to the controls. I think this will be perfect for some of my FX presets (filtered delays, multiband distortion or exiter), as it can prevent the misuse of some knobs. Mike, if you want to download them to try, they are here: https://sites.google.com/site/thecausticsessions/causticpacks

I hope that you don't miss a desktop version, because when I'm in editing mode for sound creation, I often switch to my laptop, with midi keyboard plugged in, to prevent battery drain from my tablet, and to have all my created presets on the same place, for further distribution (FTP, site upload).    I think other sound designers (hello Jblann) do the same.

Will the new interface contain a fixed keyboard (like in your picture) versus the actual removable one in the modular?

Jason
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Mike, yes.  This would be a

Mike, yes.  This would be a HUGE feature for my Builderz Pro content pack I am working on.   Almost everything will use the Modular as a Host, and if what you have shown as well as been hinting about, I WILL USE THIS, very very stoked at the prospect of such a feature.

Absolutely YES

mike
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> I hope that you don't miss

> I hope that you don't miss a desktop version

When I said mobile first I meant the size of the window. I am writing this application on the desktop. smiley So right now it runs on the desktop, what I meant is it won't have a fluid window ui like most desktops in the beginning(if ever), the application window size will be 800x480 pixels.

Who knows though, depending on the success of it will dictate what I do with the design in the future.

I talked to Rej and yes the Keyboard will be drag and drop from a control palette along with a VU meter and mute/solo buttons.

The rest of the controls will be dictated by the preset you load up to edit/create ui for.

Mike

mike
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Well there are a lot of

Well there are a lot of details to be worked out between Rej and I to actually get us synced but from some initial tests this is looking very doable.

Mike

Jason
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Very cool, looking forward to

Very cool, looking forward to it...  question though,  would a "master screen" knob be able to be linked to two knobs?  if so, could one of those knobs have inverted values?   example, master knob control of linked knob 1 (let's say filter cutoff) sweep value 1-127, also linked to control of knob 2 (lets say filter cutoff number 2 (of another filter module) ) value sweep 127-1.

 

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