Thanks Kiljay! :) It´s good to be so scared anymore, but sometimes i´m stuck. But now I don´t give up because I have this page It´s useful for everyone, I think, like an encyclopaedia Modziliica! :)
Oh yes, that would be great if someone else shared their secrets too!
Does anyone have some tips on use of the Lag Processor and The Sample and Hold.... been playing around with them lately and it would be helpful to see a better application for them than what I've come up with (or what's in the tutorial which is great but brief)
Yep - I still get stuck with the modular. Most of what I do is just trial and error flinging wires everywhere! So any advice U can get (outside of Rej's excellent vids) is truly welcome. I get most of the basics but need more application based examples.
Bit like Ian's asking for below - I don't really know effective ways of using the modules he has mentioned.
PCM playing guitar preset into a 3-input mixer into formant filter to L / Mono out gives me tone I like. However, when I stop the track I'm left with persistent 'feedback' / residual kind of sound. I have to unplug from the Mono out to kill the sound...I do have distortion effect on it..
Is this to do with the routing or the distortion effect? I am trying to learn this stuff but not being an engineer / producer, sometimes I'm not sure. It's not a problem, just more wanted an explanation of how / why it happens.
Without seeing it, I would guess it's coming from the formant filter. I've had this before too. I'm pretty sure it needs to keep generating it's effect. I think turning down the gain on it helped.
Try to add an AR env... run the out of the AR into the Volume Mod pot (the one bellow the master left/right outs)... you should be able to leave the dials alone and that will cut off the feedback that happens when not active.
Don t need anythin plugged into the AR, I attatched a visual explanation.
-lord_bondslave - tried turning down the gain and it does reduce it but still persists and I also lose the tone. I also thought it might be the formant filter continuing to generate its effect...hmmmm...
- Ian - tried the AR insert and it does kill the feedback but also kills the tone
I'll keep trying to fix but it's no biggie.. just curious what causes it to happen and whether it was just my very ...ahem..technical method to mangling sound through the modular!
Thanks again guys - if anything else springs to mind, feel free to advise.
I have run into the same issue, I think MFG had a similar problem not too long ago... in some cases the AR works without killing the tone but sometimes, like in yours, it does squash it. I think it does have to do with the Forment filter to Saturator.
I ve fixed this before but it took a little messing around. I think someone solved MFG's issue in a thread, something about aliens in the mod, but if you feel ok about posting your link I can look at it... or look up that thread. http://www.singlecellsoftware.com/node/6779
Ok, let's have some fun with the sample and hold module (SH). The modsynths in this file are all using it to modify pitch modulation because it's nice and easy to hear what's going on.
Modsynth A. This is pretty much the classic 'what you do with a sample and hold module'. Play a sustained note and you'll hear the effect of a series of random notes. Increasing the rate control will speed things up. Let's have a look round the back. White noise through SH into wave gen pitch mod. Noise is about as random a signal a you can get and the SH module is, er, sampling and holding. It grabs a sample of the incoming signal and holds it there for a bit, then it repeats. How frequently it does that is determined either by the rate control, or an external trigger. There's an LFO there doing nothing. Plug it into the SH gate input. That's controlling the rate now (all the other modsynths are doing this already). The front panel rate control won't do anything. So now the random bleeps are tempo synced. So why not just use an LFO set to random and plug that into the pitch mod? Yep. Do that instead. Unless you don't want it synced. Try Setting the LFO waveform to random. Now there's random pitch and duration.
Something a bit more musical?
Modsynth B. A somewhat more predictable SH input this time. An LFO (far left). Play around with this for lots of arpeggio effects. And don't forget the depth and SH out controls round the back.
C and D are just variations, but with a couple of different ways to combine the output of several LFOs to make some pretty complex single note sequences.
One thing I have noticed that is common to all examples, A-D, is that the Rate knob on the S and H seems to have an imperceptible effect.
I also noticed that on D (and maybe others, too) that the sound seems to be running thru it's own cycle independent of a note being triggered... it's subtle but is this the case? By triggering a note on the keyboard am I metaphorically opening a volume valve on the cycle that has it's own internal tempo? and at the same time assigning a pitch. Edit: so the note played on the keyboard speeds up the cycle of the wave forms, got that, and by ,in example D, changing the amount of each LFO on the 3 input mixer changes the shape of the overall wave going into the S and H... very cool. Lag processor in this case controlling the cutoff in the filter makes sense, thanks.
Still have to look more at the Lag Processor but this is awesome... very nice of you to spend the time.
A good use of the lag processor is to put it between the note output and a note input of a oscillator. This gives a nice effect similar to portamento, increase the effect for slower glides ;).
Oh yeah. I was just using pitch mod as an example. Plug it into anything you can modulate. And you are thoroughly encouraged to tweak any LFO waveform, rate and depth control you see. Some combinations will cancel each other out. Some will fly off into fractal madness.
Apart from example A, the rate control should have no effect and to be honest, I can't hear one.
I left all the LFOs set to note sync on so their cycles should retrigger every time you play a note. From the preview keyboard this doesn't always happen, but from the sequencer it seems to be as rock solid as a rock.
Awesome!
I understand surprisingly much of the latest posts just when i read them. I forget fast, but that´s because I´m so new to this!
Thanks for sharing all this useful knowledge.
The only thing I can share (so far) for fellow Mod students, is some study tips:
When you´re stuck, and feel totally useless - take a break and make something else without the Mod. (Motivating)
Work with the Mod again within a couple of days and ask for help if you´re still stuck. (Continuity, fellowship)
Make screenshots of presets, wires and problem areas. (Notes!)
Take 10 minute breaks every hour, stretch and get some air, maybe some nutrition. (Rewarding)
It probably sounds simple and obvious, but it´s easy to forget to rest when you´re deep in a huge amount of advanced info.
PS! Don´t leave anything boiling on the stove while studying. (Dangerous, smelly)
If you got something out of these recent posts, then that's supercool. I did have you in mind. I think the whole point of this thread is to not blind people with science, but some of these modules are a little bit complicated. Take your time :-)
I think this is good advice for Caustic use in general. I'm still learning a lot and have learned a lot from people on this forum. I use each song I make as a learning tool and I set the bar high with the latest one; I've been working on it for a month straight obsessively (besides studying the Mod, learning Reaper and learning Mastering) and I've gotten to the point where every time I open the song up I find a new detail to fixate on or change the arrangement; time to take your advice, put it down for a couple days, do something fun and take the damn rice off the stove.
Huhhh. Well, me too. No. I have not internalized all these post on the modular. I think right now i got bigg fish two fry before i let the modular take me over. But..... i will.
Thanks for the examples and explanations paulovski.. (and Pan65) ...understood quite a bit of that and have been playing around with this with varying degrees of success, but at least I've made another step in a positive direction with the modular.
Thanks Kiljay! :) It´s good to be so scared anymore, but sometimes i´m stuck. But now I don´t give up because I have this page It´s useful for everyone, I think, like an encyclopaedia Modziliica! :)
Oh yes, that would be great if someone else shared their secrets too!
https://soundcloud.com/squirrelonmars
https://www.youtube.com/c/squirreIs
https://www.facebook.com/squirrelonmars
Thanks, Kilyjay.
Does anyone have some tips on use of the Lag Processor and The Sample and Hold.... been playing around with them lately and it would be helpful to see a better application for them than what I've come up with (or what's in the tutorial which is great but brief)
Yep - I still get stuck with the modular. Most of what I do is just trial and error flinging wires everywhere! So any advice U can get (outside of Rej's excellent vids) is truly welcome. I get most of the basics but need more application based examples.
Bit like Ian's asking for below - I don't really know effective ways of using the modules he has mentioned.
Kilyjay
"sometimes it snows in April..."
My question on the modular:
PCM playing guitar preset into a 3-input mixer into formant filter to L / Mono out gives me tone I like. However, when I stop the track I'm left with persistent 'feedback' / residual kind of sound. I have to unplug from the Mono out to kill the sound...I do have distortion effect on it..
Is this to do with the routing or the distortion effect? I am trying to learn this stuff but not being an engineer / producer, sometimes I'm not sure. It's not a problem, just more wanted an explanation of how / why it happens.
Thanks in advance for any answers!
Kilyjay
"sometimes it snows in April..."
Without seeing it, I would guess it's coming from the formant filter. I've had this before too. I'm pretty sure it needs to keep generating it's effect. I think turning down the gain on it helped.
Try to add an AR env... run the out of the AR into the Volume Mod pot (the one bellow the master left/right outs)... you should be able to leave the dials alone and that will cut off the feedback that happens when not active.
Don t need anythin plugged into the AR, I attatched a visual explanation.
Caustic Song file (optional):
Thanks for the advice LB and Ian..
-lord_bondslave - tried turning down the gain and it does reduce it but still persists and I also lose the tone. I also thought it might be the formant filter continuing to generate its effect...hmmmm...
- Ian - tried the AR insert and it does kill the feedback but also kills the tone
I'll keep trying to fix but it's no biggie.. just curious what causes it to happen and whether it was just my very ...ahem..technical method to mangling sound through the modular!
Thanks again guys - if anything else springs to mind, feel free to advise.
Kilyjay
"sometimes it snows in April..."
Try putting a saturator in to make up for either the loss of gain, or the use of the env. Might gain back the depth of your tone.
Yep - thanks..will try a bit later. Gotta catch a train!
Kilyjay
"sometimes it snows in April..."
I have run into the same issue, I think MFG had a similar problem not too long ago... in some cases the AR works without killing the tone but sometimes, like in yours, it does squash it. I think it does have to do with the Forment filter to Saturator.
I ve fixed this before but it took a little messing around. I think someone solved MFG's issue in a thread, something about aliens in the mod, but if you feel ok about posting your link I can look at it... or look up that thread. http://www.singlecellsoftware.com/node/6779
I'll put some sample and hold stuff up soon. It's late here.
http://m.soundcloud.com/metatronic555
Ok, let's have some fun with the sample and hold module (SH). The modsynths in this file are all using it to modify pitch modulation because it's nice and easy to hear what's going on.
Modsynth A. This is pretty much the classic 'what you do with a sample and hold module'. Play a sustained note and you'll hear the effect of a series of random notes. Increasing the rate control will speed things up. Let's have a look round the back. White noise through SH into wave gen pitch mod. Noise is about as random a signal a you can get and the SH module is, er, sampling and holding. It grabs a sample of the incoming signal and holds it there for a bit, then it repeats. How frequently it does that is determined either by the rate control, or an external trigger. There's an LFO there doing nothing. Plug it into the SH gate input. That's controlling the rate now (all the other modsynths are doing this already). The front panel rate control won't do anything. So now the random bleeps are tempo synced. So why not just use an LFO set to random and plug that into the pitch mod? Yep. Do that instead. Unless you don't want it synced. Try Setting the LFO waveform to random. Now there's random pitch and duration.
Something a bit more musical?
Modsynth B. A somewhat more predictable SH input this time. An LFO (far left). Play around with this for lots of arpeggio effects. And don't forget the depth and SH out controls round the back.
C and D are just variations, but with a couple of different ways to combine the output of several LFOs to make some pretty complex single note sequences.
Hope that helps :-)
Caustic Song file (optional):
http://m.soundcloud.com/metatronic555
This is excellent, thank you very much!!
One thing I have noticed that is common to all examples, A-D, is that the Rate knob on the S and H seems to have an imperceptible effect.
I also noticed that on D (and maybe others, too) that the sound seems to be running thru it's own cycle independent of a note being triggered... it's subtle but is this the case? By triggering a note on the keyboard am I metaphorically opening a volume valve on the cycle that has it's own internal tempo? and at the same time assigning a pitch. Edit: so the note played on the keyboard speeds up the cycle of the wave forms, got that, and by ,in example D, changing the amount of each LFO on the 3 input mixer changes the shape of the overall wave going into the S and H... very cool. Lag processor in this case controlling the cutoff in the filter makes sense, thanks.
Still have to look more at the Lag Processor but this is awesome... very nice of you to spend the time.
Mod D is right up my alley
A good use of the lag processor is to put it between the note output and a note input of a oscillator. This gives a nice effect similar to portamento, increase the effect for slower glides ;).
thanks Pan, just did it....cool.
so further tinkering revealed (to me) that you can run the S and H into the Mod of the Waveform at the same time giving a nice staccato to the arp.
and by changing positions on the pitch knob you can squeeze the range of the arp... nice... very much thank you, again.
Oh yeah. I was just using pitch mod as an example. Plug it into anything you can modulate. And you are thoroughly encouraged to tweak any LFO waveform, rate and depth control you see. Some combinations will cancel each other out. Some will fly off into fractal madness.
Apart from example A, the rate control should have no effect and to be honest, I can't hear one.
I left all the LFOs set to note sync on so their cycles should retrigger every time you play a note. From the preview keyboard this doesn't always happen, but from the sequencer it seems to be as rock solid as a rock.
Good. I'm glad you like :-)
http://m.soundcloud.com/metatronic555
Awesome!
I understand surprisingly much of the latest posts just when i read them. I forget fast, but that´s because I´m so new to this!
Thanks for sharing all this useful knowledge.
The only thing I can share (so far) for fellow Mod students, is some study tips:
When you´re stuck, and feel totally useless - take a break and make something else without the Mod. (Motivating)
Work with the Mod again within a couple of days and ask for help if you´re still stuck. (Continuity, fellowship)
Make screenshots of presets, wires and problem areas. (Notes!)
Take 10 minute breaks every hour, stretch and get some air, maybe some nutrition. (Rewarding)
It probably sounds simple and obvious, but it´s easy to forget to rest when you´re deep in a huge amount of advanced info.
PS! Don´t leave anything boiling on the stove while studying. (Dangerous, smelly)
https://soundcloud.com/squirrelonmars
https://www.youtube.com/c/squirreIs
https://www.facebook.com/squirrelonmars
Is it Christmas or something?
If you got something out of these recent posts, then that's supercool. I did have you in mind. I think the whole point of this thread is to not blind people with science, but some of these modules are a little bit complicated. Take your time :-)
http://m.soundcloud.com/metatronic555
Thanks Britt,
I think this is good advice for Caustic use in general. I'm still learning a lot and have learned a lot from people on this forum. I use each song I make as a learning tool and I set the bar high with the latest one; I've been working on it for a month straight obsessively (besides studying the Mod, learning Reaper and learning Mastering) and I've gotten to the point where every time I open the song up I find a new detail to fixate on or change the arrangement; time to take your advice, put it down for a couple days, do something fun and take the damn rice off the stove.
Thanks!
I´m just showing Santa that I still believe in him, and need some huge presents for Christmas. Some music gear, maybe!
(Yep, you rock, Santa!!)
https://soundcloud.com/squirrelonmars
https://www.youtube.com/c/squirreIs
https://www.facebook.com/squirrelonmars
Huhhh. Well, me too. No. I have not internalized all these post on the modular. I think right now i got bigg fish two fry before i let the modular take me over. But..... i will.
Thanks for the examples and explanations paulovski.. (and Pan65) ...understood quite a bit of that and have been playing around with this with varying degrees of success, but at least I've made another step in a positive direction with the modular.
Kilyjay
"sometimes it snows in April..."
Ian - thanks, I seem to remember that thread and will check if the answer is there.. if not, I might just drop u a link! Thanks again.
Kilyjay
"sometimes it snows in April..."
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