I have been trying to make decent drum fills since the beginning of my music journey and still can't grasp creating the patterns to emulate a good drum fill. I feel I'm really lacking in this area.
Any advice? Especially from people that were/are drummers would be very helpful.
I like making drum fills patterns. I hear the greats and try to follow their example. Once in a while I'll look over some drum tab from a song that has an interesting feel/sound.
It's why I love Jason's pocket kits. He has different velocity samples on his PCM. They help when writing fills as drum is not always consistently hit with the same velocity.
I don't know if this is of any use...
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Yeah that helped a lot Rob, thanks! How would I go about learning to program that way to make it sound like live drumming? I could probably just copy your patterns and tweak them but I would like to understand this on a deeper level.
I would like to learn what the names of these patterns are called from a drummers perspective so I can learn the basics of them but actually be able to put a name to it if that makes sense. I'm sick of programming drums by ear and would rather get this stuff down so it's second nature. It takes me way too long to program beats.
U just gotta feeeeeeeeeeeel it. R u?
No amount of techincal training of labeling drum patterns can really replace quality of what u feel win u do music.
others would guide two upbeat faster pace rhythms. But, for getting what u can grasp and build from start of slow. And Gradually change everything.
But you have to learn the basics derrt. I have tried just "feeling" it and I'm getting nowhere with that approach. I want to learn what basic drum fill patterns are so I can expand on them and make them my own. Gotta learn to walk before you can run.
Also, can you show some of your own work in these forums before you feel the need to contribute to everyone's posts? I mean how do I know if you even know what you are talking about? I haven't seen any of your work in the S&T forum unless I missed it.
Why can´t you give him an example, Derrti? And tell some of us others too?
This might be of use...
The thing is to try and copy other people's fills and modify it to suit you, furthermore whilst trying to copy other people's stuff you invariably come up with something new natural
Edit : I see you were already part of that discussion back then!
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Thanks again, yeah I just haven't progressed much with my drum programming as is evident from that 2 year old thread.
I'm working on a D&B track where I want to add some fills and it just doesn't sound right, almost like I need a time signature change in that 1 bar pattern. Is that something that drummers do, change the time sig for a fill?
I just thought of something... I usually have the swing setting cranked all the way on my tracks, would over-riding the swing for a fill pattern help?
You might use triplets on a fill, rarely would you switch time signatures, maybe if you're in a prog rock band! The swing might be causing a problem, I rarely use swing and if I do its only a notch.
Open up the 8 beats track again and push the swing over and see if you think it messes up the fills.
My latest track on show and tell
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A good idea is to listen to some on commercial recordings, or if you have the means to do so, record some snippets of it, and slow it down to one half speed, and loop it until you get it, or draw it out on a grid, and then translate it into Caustic..... That is what I do, when I hear a really cool fill, or nasty little lick...
A rhythmic rhythms is what i started with and still there. Cause most of music is an overlap of such fat mirrors the other bipolar opposites in sound. Mute a few sounds
find what u want as strong beat and your down is volume control of how u want the drum two sound.
Same way with the melody of keys... two me??? I don't worry about creating different songs. Cause win i get ahold of an artist of sound more than me they would be idealist swaying a different groove over my trks or depends win i get more of a studio set-up or win the app gets more develoo..
my problem is mastering using the effects. Learning how two make certain synths do what i don't sea a synth as.
This app is a changer for me. Cause i've had nothing but drums in drum machines. And no real way two improv over those drums cause caustic is now my help. And its just coming out the same song 25 different ways.
Why i can't help mek???
I had a alesis sr 16. And i hated it. Cause what all it had compare two boss dr. Groove 202.
Both drum machines. But i felt constraint two not grow with dat machine. My drum licks was not gettin' advancing. I suck'd in sound sequence mode. And i couldn't understand a damm on the mamual. Sooo all i had at time was patterns.
Nobody two help with me advancing more like what mek is asking.
Its his doubt. At the root of his compositions. His ideas and drum licks probably sound fine!!! The drum fills r really not easy two do on caustic.
Two me!! A drum fill is 2/4 beat. Not 4/4. Its very hard two get a pattern resized down. And i know all about note value change it still is in 4/4.
I really don't care what anyone thinks about my music. U count the note values in the pattern it still the same.
I don't do rock or drum 'n bass or dub step or any other genre of music but my own. Harder two categorize then.
But i will tell u what. U have the drum pattern fill problem post the file.
And sea what others do with what u struggling with maybe we all struggling in the same idea as u.
I can say if we all stumble over the same then is it all us or the app...... idk
Great, you created you're own genre! Then let's hear it!
Worth more win i got something for audience. I'm selling two. Copyright protection i only share with won on 1. Not worth the risk for if my trks are tied two others. U the won wanting help. I'm just extending.
I really don't have nothing i need two prove. I'm not getting paid for this lil exhibition. Sooo one on won!
I learned to program drums by listening to my NPR station's Saturday blues program, and by watching how real drummers drum whenever I can. I often pay attention to the musical guests on the late night talk shows as an exercise because you can usually see pretty well what they are up to behind their band and kit, and there is a relatively broad spread of genres lately.
I also think its fair to point out that the kit you're using may can have a pretty big impact on expressivity. If you feel that your fills are sounding too much like a drum machine, it may be because you want to get more out of a single snare hit or kick drum sample than one can reasonably be expected to. If you haven't, try a kit with multiple snare and tom samples and see if that doesn't cut you loose a bit. For a basic example, try filling the last measure before a new part with 16th note tom hits, 8 on your high tom, followed by 4 on your mid, then 4 on your low, always alternating your samples. Punctuate with a crash.
^^^^^^^^^^ say what?
I dug up an older project that fell into the "not good enough" pile. There aren't a lot of fills, exactly, but I did experiment with pulling each piece of the kit out into its own track to make dequantizing the hits easier. Here's a quote a kept from a user on another board. I found the advice indispensable.
I am ultra old school when it comes to MIDI drums. First started programming with a MT32 in the stone age. Take your existing groove and play around with the velocity levels of snare and hihat, also try a consistent shift slightly back or forwards in time for the hihat. The WHOLE hihat part. What I found was that for a quick and dirty human feel, shifting the hi hat back a few clicks makes the part sound a little looser or laid back, whereas shifting it forward a few licks will make it feel more aggressive. That and setting some sort of pattern to the velocity levels on hi hat and snare that complement each other is quick and easy to do and should make your tracks feel more "real" Mostly because a good human drummer achieves his feel this way. There again Groove Monkey's stuff is not that bad to start with. Oh and keep the variations few and well placed. Just the odd sliced hi hat (open it on an "and" and then close it on the next beat) will spice a track up. Oh! By an "and" I mean "one and two and three and four", so you would open the hi hat on the "and" after three and not close or play it till 4. Hope that makes sense. Simple but effective if used sparingly and much easier than programming an actual fill.
Caustic Song file (optional):
You are the only forum member who posts a fair amount that has never posted their own music. I'm beginning to question whether you actually create anything using Caustic or are just on here for your own twisted form of amusement. We are a tight knit community who connect with each other through our music and the music making process, if you can't even share your stuff why are you even here?
Put up or shut up!
Cause of choice. No one of this community can make another put up or shut up soo speak. U ask i have my opinion just cause u ain't flowin' with yours don't give u no more right two tell someone put up or shut up. Who
we each endisibly r.
We need two keep thang this way
ahowing a file is easy. But why put it out for everyone win u want a trk from me gmail. If not u shut up or put up. U the won with drum pattern fill problem not me!
If u wanna collab.... ask me nicely properly like adult.
banterin' me in corner is just internet amusement of wasting everyone's time away from music.
And if it's about put up shut up i'm ghost.
No more of mi
the bloodfire dat runz these viens u neva' over stand with dat attitude. Neva' cause u have fefeated ya' self. Wise up!
What do u really want help. Not a pushin' match over the internet wise up.
This isn't to Mekanism, but more to users who are new to using drums in this way (using software progs to program drum patterns) I had no experience at all before Caustic, now I'm not saying I'm good in any fashion, but I listened to users on here who are drummers, had a look at their caustic files when posted and listened to their advice, which all really helped me, but don't forget, experiment, don't be afraid of this app, if it doesn't sound good, try again, you're nor wasting anything, delete and start again
to be fair I never before posted a real song of mine either and I post a lot too ^^
Listen to breakbeat stuff. you'll find some great songs and you'll learn perfectly how to get nice fill ins.
I agree with wellsley..... don't forget two experiment!!!
But i disagree with throwin' a file just cause its not what u want after 30 of those win will it sink in u mite have done the same series of combos???
Dats my point i may not have dat many saves two a project. Damn near close!!! Mainly cause can't copy and paste patterns easily.... tooo many wrap'around retch'arounds in this app two make a song work. And how others do synth challenges i'm out of my league doin' songs like dat!!!
Way back Andy Zamoron said "Boots and Cats" and that made me think... Ooo what are the names for other beats? And where is the list of naming?
I am a drummer and I have kinda started to think lately that drum fills are for live drummers; not helpful, I know. What I mean is fills are spontaneous, and while there is a ton of practice that comes before being able kill a slick lick, for me it's about feelin' it in the moment. So, simple is really good with drum machines... There is nothing worse than over thought drum programming.
Thanks for the help guys. Time to study with the info in this thread.
To Derrti, you are one of the most outspoken members on this forum but yet you don't want to post your music. I don't understand why, and you tried to explain it above but I didn't understand you.
By the way you write posts and act you appear to be narcissist. Nothing anyone can say to you or ask of you to be more clear has any affect on your behavior. If I was a moderator I would have banned you by now. I don't give a flying Fuck if you must do you and all that bullshit. You're a troll!
Since it appears that I'm the only one affected by this I will be leaving the forums for a while. Derrti just dirties up every thread he posts in. Sorry, it just not the place I want to be right now.
But.... If you must, a lot of smart drum programmers use pitch shifts instead of busy notes... or just simple value changes like going from 1/16 notes to 1/8 notes... Also 2 against 3 feel can not be over praised...even just hinting at it will make a very simple pattern become awesome and rad fill like. Less clutter more clever.
Yeah, good luck with that... Need an iced tea? Huff it up.
Step 1) Program a beatbox rhythm that sounds like "Doo-dah-doom-tah-doom-ratta-tatta-boom-boom" with drum noises. 909 kit works well. Just go for something a rhythmic that moves through a variety of drum sounds. Keep it to a basic 1-bar pattern.
Step 2) Load up a Modular synth and add a "Machine input" plug. Set it to the beatbox. Add a filter (I personally like the K35) and wire the MI into it. Tie the output of the filter into both left and right outputs on the modular. Automate the cutoff and resonance of the filter.
Step 3) Spread your beatbox and modular patterns over four bars in the sequencer. Now go ahead and automate the volume, panning, and stereo width of both.
Step 4) Play with your automation over the course of four bars. Seriously, just program random things until you find something you like, then focus in on it.
Step 5) Change up the drum patterns over the course of your four bar pattern. Keep playing with it until you're happy, and export it as a sample to load into another song.
Just to suggest a work flow :)