Personally I'd go down the pcm synth route (having possibly sampled a ks synth) the problem with the ks is you don't have a note off so you can't stop a string ringing after it starts. If you create a strum pattern then every time you hit the same string again the previous sound that string was making has to stop. So pcm with note in/off mode with very little release works well.
Hello you guys in here..
My first opinion about the KSsynth was "oh !! It sounds terribly natural.. High pitch notes are shorter than low pitch notes, like on a piano or a guitar or on drums.. And it has "key follow" and "hello kitty"knobs..
Ooops.. I meant "velocity", which is not a town reserved for velocipedes, no no..
But then I thought, just like Rob, that the lack of a "release" button, makes it barely usable.. I think this synth would benefit from a "release" knob.. Or at least, a "release on/off switch.. There's some room left for it, on top of the screen, near the "decay" knob..
the "modular input plus attack.release" solution is a poor one.. It's like re-inventing the Korg Poly800, with a single VCF and VCF enveloppe, for 8 voices of pseudo-polyphony.. That was a big cheat.. (No, I didn't say shit.. I only thought it.. Not pronounced it..)
By nature ?? You mean, in its basic configuration..
Yes, that's true.. Now, nothing forbids to add an envelope generator to increase the possibilities of the machine.. And even a VCF with envelope and LFO.. Per voice, I mean.. It's just a choice that can be made..
But.. Back to the topic.. Simulating an acoustic guitar..
Once you know exactly how a guitarist would play your guitar part..
What about this configuration ??
6 KSsynth.. One for each guitar string..
One modular would not be enough to manage the 6 inputs, 6 envelopes and 6 VCAs.. Lets open 2 modular, each one having 3 inputs, 3 AR envelopes, 3 mixer/modulator.. We can even add 3 filters plus 3 decay envelopes.. And a 3input mixer..
On the mixer, the direct sound of the KSsynths would be turned off by setting the volume to 0..
Sure, it takes 8 machine slots.. Ok..
And it needs to decompose our guitar part into 6 one-string parts..
But in the end, we probably would have a convincing result..
No.. My possible solution is not a solution at all, cause the KSsynths would not trigger the envelopes in the modular..
So it needs 6 modular, each one with one machine input with the "send notes" function toggled "on", one AR envelope, one mixer.modulator, and the notes will be plc or programmed on the modular..
It takes 12 machine slots !!
Oh yes.. But the question was about "how to synth an acoustic guitar"..
Sure, the "merge rack" function in Caustic, can turn our favorite KSsynth preset into a multi-sampled file, and then the ADSR on the PCMsynth, will come to help..
The big problem with the KS synth is that you can't do pitch-bend while you play, and it's mono. Now you can create a PCM synth preset from the KS synth with the new tool in Caustic 3.2 to go beyond these limits...
I think by mono he is referring to not stereo. Its monophonic not momophonic, all the machines can slide (pitch bend) if you drop them to monophonic synths (1 polyphony).
Not truly all the machines.. PADsynth, Organ and KSsynth have no polyphony settings, so you can't turn them to nomophonic.. Same for.vocoder, but as you can input any other machine, thats not a problem..
His "Guitar Combo" sets are based on a PCMsynth preset called 'GUITAR BASE'; I used it for my sappy early '90s acoustic rock ballad. It's the best guitar preset I've found yet.
Hey !! Acustic is the anagram of Caustic ?? I didn't notice it yet, but now it's done..
(Hey !! I have a brain ???)
Ok ok.. So, I tried it.. The text on my soundcloud (Cause I know you never read the texts on soundcloud) says :
"No, I did not play it.. It's a midi file I found on the net..
All my part was to
1) make a (as convincing as possible) acoustic guitar preset on Caustic 3.. I achieved it by mixing KSsynth and FMsynth..
2/ Modify the velocity on the lower and medium notes, to have a better balance..
3) Delay a few notes, to get as close as possible to a guitarist technique..
And finally, I added a second KSsynth to have spacial effects.. That was not really necessary, but I liked it better that way..
I might delete it some day (Mr Wells, this time you're warned !!!), so if you want to keep it, download it.."
But even when deleted from my SSC, I will leave it here :
Yep. That's definitely one way to do it. Very nice Thierry! Very convincing. I have an Ibanez guitar I've been wanting to sample for a while now - like how stePH did with his chapman stick. I'd like to get as many samples as possible, but the only thing stopping me is, with 6 strings and 24 frets, which notes do I sample to cover all 7 octaves - or is that even necessary?
Thanx Uncle.. Your comment is the comment of a connoisseur, in terms of synthesizing, so I appreciate it..
Well.. Concerning your Ibanez.. I suppose you should do it..
More than "which notes should you use for your samples", my biggest wonder would be "how to record it, and how to post-process the sound files, to get the best out of it..
But concerning the number of notes to sample.. 1st, the question is to be asked to Steph, he already thought about it when he sampled his Cheapman Stock.. Or to Jason, I'm sure he is used to it.. Me ? I would probably sample ALL the notes, and even ALL the strings on ALL the frets.. And after that, I would try so many combinations, and end up with a million presets, and would not be able to chose from..
..That would take time.. By chance, I don't have any Ibanez or Ovation to sample, eh eh..
More seriously, sure I would sample all frets / all strings, and make several different presets.. But in theory, I would say that a good sample can be made by sampling every 1 1/2 tone (that is 3 half tones between 2 samples)..
And of course, you will never get 7 octaves.. only 3 and a few half tones..
And the subsidiary question will be.. And what about the harmonics ??? And what about the fret noises ???
And is it necessary ? Yes,n of course.. Necessary for you, cause you feel the need to do it.. If you don't fo it, you will feel unfulfilled.. and when you do it, you will be satisfied of having done it (or not.. But at least, you would have tried to reach your goal).. Necessary for you, because this way, you will learn and/or practice sampling, sound processing, etc..
Necessary for Caustic, cause I'm sure you will then share a copyright-free preset..
And probably necessary for several users who will be happy enough to use a real acoustic sound.. I don't know how many acoustic-guitar-sample-presets exist on the net.. Maybe millions.. Maybe a few.. Maybe zero Ibanez..
The only thing is.. Caustic uses .sfz and .sf2 files.. But converts them into .pcmsynth files.. And I believe that those files are only usable with Caustic..I find it a little bit selfish, cause we're happy enough to use the samples from others, and on our side, we make closed files that other softwares can't use.. SO, if I were to make a sample preset, I would probably try to make it as an SF2 or SFZ file, so that I would be able to share it with soundfont workers.. (But how easy is it ? and which software to use ? I don't know)
A lot to consider for sure... And like you, I'd probably sample every string at every fret.
I got ahead of myself though. Although I do have an acoustic, it's a crappy one. My Ibanez is electric.
To sample it, I have a Peavy viper amp with a line-out which I'd plug my zoom field recorder into and record via line-in. I can record in 24bit 44.1khz stereo .wav's so it should work nicely in the end. As much work as that would be, I know most of the work will be in the pcmsynth and wav editor... another thought that has me debating the whole effort.
At first, I worked with only the KSsynth.. The harmonics are a different file than the rest of the guitar sound.. I must confess that I spent a longer time on rendering the guitar sound, than the harmoonics.. For me, they are just a-little-more-than-ok, but not perfect..
But as long as there is no "release" knob or switch on the KS, then I will not be satisfied by the guitar sound.. No possible to stop the "strings" from ringing.. Then, notes are overlapping, which should cancel each other (when played on the same "string"..) ANd no possibility to have notes muted by the palm of the right hand, or by the fingers of the left hand.. No short notes..
So I decided to try to synthesize an acoustic guitar on the FMsynth.. I already tried several times, I get close to the thing, but never satisfied.. I tried "Horizons" with a not-so-bad-but-still-not-good acoustic FMsynth preset which I was still tweaking, but then decided to try it with one of my own jazz guitar FMsynth presets.. Yeah.. I like them better.. (And btw, this tune would sound well on a real Wes-Montgomery/Pat-Metheny and al, electrified jazz guitar..)
Then I decided to try and mix those 2 sounds, and it sounded like it was a good idea.. The main body of the sound is the FMsynth electric guitar, and the KSsynth is here to bring upper harmonics.. Brightness.. And as it continues ringing even when the key is released, when the FMsynth is then muted, this KSsynth kinda brings a smooth nice, natural reverb.. Ok, I kept this version..
You should try the caustic file.. Mute channels 6-7 (FMsynth electric guitar) to have the KSsynth guitar and harmonics alone..
Then play it again, mute all channels except 6-7 to have the FMsynth guitar and harmonics..
Then this would answer your question.. Yes, the harmonics are played by a different KSsynth preset, but also by a different FMsynth preset, both mixed.. Both could be perfectible (by shortening the decay ??)
You know I sit here sometimes and really wish I had more time, ha much more time, sitting in my little office looking at this on my lunch break, that is exactly what I'm thinking, thanks Thierry, you go to so much effort and I for one appreciate the time you put into working things out...I need to find some time to try and ingest these workings...Unfortunately I am going away on Sunday for a week in the Canary Islands, so much of my thoughts are turning to holiday mode...oh by the way Wes Montgomary I like very much, and agree tha type of sound would fit the bill, though I might use the chapman stick preset to use for my interpretation of Horizons..
like how stePH did with his chapman stick. I'd like to get as many samples as possible, but the only thing stopping me is, with 6 strings and 24 frets, which notes do I sample to cover all 7 octaves - or is that even necessary?
I picked the areas of the neck where my hands spend the most time (near the headstock for the bass strings, around the 12th fret for the treble strings) and sampled those notes, plus the extreme ranges of the highest and lowest strings. I chose notes spaced at minor third intervals (three frets apart) so that each sample would also cover the notes immediately below and above (spanning a major second). You could probably even get away with each sample spanning a major third, sampling notes five frets apart, if you want to reduce the final size of the PCM preset.
For a guitar, I would probably make two separate machines, one with notes low on the neck (for reproducing open position chords and lower-register lines) and one with the hand position higher on the neck, like 8-to-10 frets up, for screaming leads and solos. But that's just me. Your mileage may vary.
I was just about to start a new thread on this topic, but I'll go ahead here...
We'll I already started recording and building (it's gonna take a long time the way I'm doing it), but before I go any further I wanted to get some opinions.
My idea was to fill each octave (1-6) with the first 12 frets of each string for one preset, then another preset with the higher notes like you said.
What I didn't know was whether it would be too confusing to play, regardless of if you even understood that going in...
I started with stereo samples, but realized in the end it would be a ridiculously huge preset, so I monotized them, then cut them down to 3sec, then set loop points.
I put chorus and a comb filter on the effects panel also so you can see the difference it makes.
Also, play around with the filter sliders and knobs. I think if I keep sampling, it will be worth it in the end. I just wonder if I should keep mapping them like I am...
Sounds truly nice..
How uneasy is it, to play each note, on the guitar, with exactly the same velocity, attack, etc... in order to get a well balanced, homogeneous file, in the end ??
For now it sounds good, and I guess it's not that easy..
I was playing it through earphones, and sure it sounds good.. There is some background white noise.. You should edit each sample with a low pass filter..
And also I've heard ticks ticks due to an imperfect looping.. Maybe you should make 2 versions.. One y, heavier, with the complete, uncut and not looped, samples.. And a lighter one, with shorter samples, looped..
Yes, sure the same note sounds differently according to the string used to play it.. Uneasy for a non-guitarist, to decide which one should be chosen.. And maybe it's uneasy even for a guitarist..
And what will be uneasy, too, will be: to make a good transition between the notes using one string, and the neighbour note, played on another string.. The transition between those 2 different timbres..
But for now, your ( still unfinished) work is full of promises..
Thanks o.q for the feedback. I also noticed the white noise and was leaning towards starting over. I think I'll do like you said and make a version with the original sustain intact. And when I'm done I'll post a zip file with all of the samples included so people can map them however they want.
I think the white noise I was getting is actually electrical noise. I tried switching cables and it helped, but it was still there. I also lowered the volume on my amp to almost nothing and although I can't hear it now, I kinda think it will show up when I amp it up in the editor. Any tips on how to get rid of it?
No, I'm not used to that kind of thing.. But what I heard on your samples, the noise was not so loud, and it can easily be filtered in the wav editor without cutting off too much harmonics, i guess.... (at least in the lower octaves )..
In this one I have 6 full samples (with no loop ponts) - one for each string, and they're mapped like the neck of a guitar just like before. The bottom E stretches over 2 octaves from c6-c8.
The tune btw is actually meant to be finger-picked on an acoustic.
Have you ever watched the tutorials on youtube? There is one with this topic, I think
If you want to do it by synth, then the KSS synth is the way to go. You can also find some PCM preset in the preset section.
Personally I'd go down the pcm synth route (having possibly sampled a ks synth) the problem with the ks is you don't have a note off so you can't stop a string ringing after it starts. If you create a strum pattern then every time you hit the same string again the previous sound that string was making has to stop. So pcm with note in/off mode with very little release works well.
My latest track on show and tell
My Soundcloud page
Alternatively, play the KS through a Modsynth input module with note send on and control the modsynth volume with an AR envelope generator.
http://m.soundcloud.com/metatronic555
Mod synth would only give you mono synth, you need 6 part poly.
My latest track on show and tell
My Soundcloud page
That's true. But if you're going down the synthesis route with a KS, it can help.
http://m.soundcloud.com/metatronic555
http://www.singlecellsoftware.com/node/9165
My latest track on show and tell
My Soundcloud page
Hello you guys in here..
My first opinion about the KSsynth was "oh !! It sounds terribly natural.. High pitch notes are shorter than low pitch notes, like on a piano or a guitar or on drums.. And it has "key follow" and "hello kitty"knobs..
Ooops.. I meant "velocity", which is not a town reserved for velocipedes, no no..
But then I thought, just like Rob, that the lack of a "release" button, makes it barely usable.. I think this synth would benefit from a "release" knob.. Or at least, a "release on/off switch.. There's some room left for it, on top of the screen, near the "decay" knob..
the "modular input plus attack.release" solution is a poor one.. It's like re-inventing the Korg Poly800, with a single VCF and VCF enveloppe, for 8 voices of pseudo-polyphony.. That was a big cheat.. (No, I didn't say shit.. I only thought it.. Not pronounced it..)
It's just a little bit better than a KS on it's own.
http://m.soundcloud.com/metatronic555
If you play chords, yes.. Arpeggios ?? Not sure.. Overlapping notes ?? Absolutely not !!
Indeed. You're not going to be able to cover every way of playing a guitar out of one synth here.
http://m.soundcloud.com/metatronic555
Sure..
The ks synth by its nature has no release, you trigger the sound and it sounds until it finishes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karplus–Strong_string_synthesis
My latest track on show and tell
My Soundcloud page
By nature ?? You mean, in its basic configuration..
Yes, that's true.. Now, nothing forbids to add an envelope generator to increase the possibilities of the machine.. And even a VCF with envelope and LFO.. Per voice, I mean.. It's just a choice that can be made..
But.. Back to the topic.. Simulating an acoustic guitar..
Once you know exactly how a guitarist would play your guitar part..
What about this configuration ??
6 KSsynth.. One for each guitar string..
One modular would not be enough to manage the 6 inputs, 6 envelopes and 6 VCAs.. Lets open 2 modular, each one having 3 inputs, 3 AR envelopes, 3 mixer/modulator.. We can even add 3 filters plus 3 decay envelopes.. And a 3input mixer..
On the mixer, the direct sound of the KSsynths would be turned off by setting the volume to 0..
Sure, it takes 8 machine slots.. Ok..
And it needs to decompose our guitar part into 6 one-string parts..
But in the end, we probably would have a convincing result..
No.. My possible solution is not a solution at all, cause the KSsynths would not trigger the envelopes in the modular..
So it needs 6 modular, each one with one machine input with the "send notes" function toggled "on", one AR envelope, one mixer.modulator, and the notes will be plc or programmed on the modular..
It takes 12 machine slots !!
... Or just use a multisample pcm synth!
My latest track on show and tell
My Soundcloud page
Oh yes.. But the question was about "how to synth an acoustic guitar"..
Sure, the "merge rack" function in Caustic, can turn our favorite KSsynth preset into a multi-sampled file, and then the ADSR on the PCMsynth, will come to help..
The big problem with the KS synth is that you can't do pitch-bend while you play, and it's mono. Now you can create a PCM synth preset from the KS synth with the new tool in Caustic 3.2 to go beyond these limits...
http://pquenin.free.fr/pqnaudio
http://www.soundclick.com/thepqueninproject
There is no pitch bend at all on Caustic.. On any of the machines.. And KSsynth is not momophomic, only the bassline and the modular are..
And on some other machines, you can turn the polyphony to 1,which means momophonic..
I think by mono he is referring to not stereo. Its monophonic not momophonic, all the machines can slide (pitch bend) if you drop them to monophonic synths (1 polyphony).
My latest track on show and tell
My Soundcloud page
Not truly all the machines.. PADsynth, Organ and KSsynth have no polyphony settings, so you can't turn them to nomophonic.. Same for.vocoder, but as you can input any other machine, thats not a problem..
momo, nomo,... what's the difference? :)
In some cases, n is before m.. In some other cases, there even is no n at all..
(Ok.. This is an useless comment, but as I can't find sleep, you guess..)
I was going to say potato, potato, but it doesn't work as well when you type it...
Try "tomato" ?? Or "tornado" ??
Po-tay-to, po-tah-to, to-may-to, to-mah-to, let's forget the whole damn thing.
Get Jason's "Builderz Pro Toolkits" here: http://singlecellsoftware.com/node/6014
His "Guitar Combo" sets are based on a PCMsynth preset called 'GUITAR BASE'; I used it for my sappy early '90s acoustic rock ballad. It's the best guitar preset I've found yet.
Hey !! Acustic is the anagram of Caustic ?? I didn't notice it yet, but now it's done..
(Hey !! I have a brain ???)
Ok ok.. So, I tried it.. The text on my soundcloud (Cause I know you never read the texts on soundcloud) says :
"No, I did not play it.. It's a midi file I found on the net..
All my part was to
1) make a (as convincing as possible) acoustic guitar preset on Caustic 3.. I achieved it by mixing KSsynth and FMsynth..
2/ Modify the velocity on the lower and medium notes, to have a better balance..
3) Delay a few notes, to get as close as possible to a guitarist technique..
And finally, I added a second KSsynth to have spacial effects.. That was not really necessary, but I liked it better that way..
I might delete it some day (Mr Wells, this time you're warned !!!), so if you want to keep it, download it.."
But even when deleted from my SSC, I will leave it here :
https://www.dropbox.com/s/01fr43rajhpal18/Genesis%20-%20Horizons%20-%20A...
And the caustic file is here..
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ynke8hhi7wyeojl/GENESIS%20HORIZONS.caustic?dl=0
Hope you will enjoy it.. And once again, if I share the .caustic file, that means I allow anyone to use the presets..
Have a nice day, or night, or morning, or evening, or insomnia, or whatever..
Thierry
Yep. That's definitely one way to do it. Very nice Thierry! Very convincing. I have an Ibanez guitar I've been wanting to sample for a while now - like how stePH did with his chapman stick. I'd like to get as many samples as possible, but the only thing stopping me is, with 6 strings and 24 frets, which notes do I sample to cover all 7 octaves - or is that even necessary?
Thanx Uncle.. Your comment is the comment of a connoisseur, in terms of synthesizing, so I appreciate it..
Well.. Concerning your Ibanez.. I suppose you should do it..
More than "which notes should you use for your samples", my biggest wonder would be "how to record it, and how to post-process the sound files, to get the best out of it..
But concerning the number of notes to sample.. 1st, the question is to be asked to Steph, he already thought about it when he sampled his Cheapman Stock.. Or to Jason, I'm sure he is used to it.. Me ? I would probably sample ALL the notes, and even ALL the strings on ALL the frets.. And after that, I would try so many combinations, and end up with a million presets, and would not be able to chose from..
..That would take time.. By chance, I don't have any Ibanez or Ovation to sample, eh eh..
More seriously, sure I would sample all frets / all strings, and make several different presets.. But in theory, I would say that a good sample can be made by sampling every 1 1/2 tone (that is 3 half tones between 2 samples)..
And of course, you will never get 7 octaves.. only 3 and a few half tones..
And the subsidiary question will be.. And what about the harmonics ??? And what about the fret noises ???
And is it necessary ? Yes,n of course.. Necessary for you, cause you feel the need to do it.. If you don't fo it, you will feel unfulfilled.. and when you do it, you will be satisfied of having done it (or not.. But at least, you would have tried to reach your goal).. Necessary for you, because this way, you will learn and/or practice sampling, sound processing, etc..
Necessary for Caustic, cause I'm sure you will then share a copyright-free preset..
And probably necessary for several users who will be happy enough to use a real acoustic sound.. I don't know how many acoustic-guitar-sample-presets exist on the net.. Maybe millions.. Maybe a few.. Maybe zero Ibanez..
The only thing is.. Caustic uses .sfz and .sf2 files.. But converts them into .pcmsynth files.. And I believe that those files are only usable with Caustic..I find it a little bit selfish, cause we're happy enough to use the samples from others, and on our side, we make closed files that other softwares can't use.. SO, if I were to make a sample preset, I would probably try to make it as an SF2 or SFZ file, so that I would be able to share it with soundfont workers.. (But how easy is it ? and which software to use ? I don't know)
A lot to consider for sure... And like you, I'd probably sample every string at every fret.
I got ahead of myself though. Although I do have an acoustic, it's a crappy one. My Ibanez is electric.
To sample it, I have a Peavy viper amp with a line-out which I'd plug my zoom field recorder into and record via line-in. I can record in 24bit 44.1khz stereo .wav's so it should work nicely in the end. As much work as that would be, I know most of the work will be in the pcmsynth and wav editor... another thought that has me debating the whole effort.
@Wellesley, a reply to your question on SC.. and @everyone who is interested..
"The harmonics are interpreted by the KS?"
I prefer answering here, as those comments will be Caustic-specific-technically oriented..
You're invited to download and try the .caustic file
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ynke8hhi7wyeojl/GENESIS%20HORIZONS.caustic?dl=0
At first, I worked with only the KSsynth.. The harmonics are a different file than the rest of the guitar sound.. I must confess that I spent a longer time on rendering the guitar sound, than the harmoonics.. For me, they are just a-little-more-than-ok, but not perfect..
But as long as there is no "release" knob or switch on the KS, then I will not be satisfied by the guitar sound.. No possible to stop the "strings" from ringing.. Then, notes are overlapping, which should cancel each other (when played on the same "string"..) ANd no possibility to have notes muted by the palm of the right hand, or by the fingers of the left hand.. No short notes..
So I decided to try to synthesize an acoustic guitar on the FMsynth.. I already tried several times, I get close to the thing, but never satisfied.. I tried "Horizons" with a not-so-bad-but-still-not-good acoustic FMsynth preset which I was still tweaking, but then decided to try it with one of my own jazz guitar FMsynth presets.. Yeah.. I like them better.. (And btw, this tune would sound well on a real Wes-Montgomery/Pat-Metheny and al, electrified jazz guitar..)
Then I decided to try and mix those 2 sounds, and it sounded like it was a good idea.. The main body of the sound is the FMsynth electric guitar, and the KSsynth is here to bring upper harmonics.. Brightness.. And as it continues ringing even when the key is released, when the FMsynth is then muted, this KSsynth kinda brings a smooth nice, natural reverb.. Ok, I kept this version..
You should try the caustic file.. Mute channels 6-7 (FMsynth electric guitar) to have the KSsynth guitar and harmonics alone..
Then play it again, mute all channels except 6-7 to have the FMsynth guitar and harmonics..
Then this would answer your question.. Yes, the harmonics are played by a different KSsynth preset, but also by a different FMsynth preset, both mixed.. Both could be perfectible (by shortening the decay ??)
Have a nice day..
Thierry
You know I sit here sometimes and really wish I had more time, ha much more time, sitting in my little office looking at this on my lunch break, that is exactly what I'm thinking, thanks Thierry, you go to so much effort and I for one appreciate the time you put into working things out...I need to find some time to try and ingest these workings...Unfortunately I am going away on Sunday for a week in the Canary Islands, so much of my thoughts are turning to holiday mode...oh by the way Wes Montgomary I like very much, and agree tha type of sound would fit the bill, though I might use the chapman stick preset to use for my interpretation of Horizons..
https://soundcloud.com/wellsley-1
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCjL6zQnBNTJT_oUg3jqfuew
wellsley.bandcamp.com
UNFORTUNATLEY ? WHAT "UNFORTUNATELY" ???
Well.. Going to Canary Islands might be a nice moment.. So many people would dream of it..
I picked the areas of the neck where my hands spend the most time (near the headstock for the bass strings, around the 12th fret for the treble strings) and sampled those notes, plus the extreme ranges of the highest and lowest strings. I chose notes spaced at minor third intervals (three frets apart) so that each sample would also cover the notes immediately below and above (spanning a major second). You could probably even get away with each sample spanning a major third, sampling notes five frets apart, if you want to reduce the final size of the PCM preset.
For a guitar, I would probably make two separate machines, one with notes low on the neck (for reproducing open position chords and lower-register lines) and one with the hand position higher on the neck, like 8-to-10 frets up, for screaming leads and solos. But that's just me. Your mileage may vary.
...maybe Jason will share how he made his GUITAR BASE preset that I like to use.
I was just about to start a new thread on this topic, but I'll go ahead here...
We'll I already started recording and building (it's gonna take a long time the way I'm doing it), but before I go any further I wanted to get some opinions.
My idea was to fill each octave (1-6) with the first 12 frets of each string for one preset, then another preset with the higher notes like you said.
What I didn't know was whether it would be too confusing to play, regardless of if you even understood that going in...
Here's a link to what I have so far...(just open E to A on the top string)
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7x4c7cr7l9rm49/UA%20Ibanez.caustic?dl=0
I started with stereo samples, but realized in the end it would be a ridiculously huge preset, so I monotized them, then cut them down to 3sec, then set loop points.
I put chorus and a comb filter on the effects panel also so you can see the difference it makes.
Also, play around with the filter sliders and knobs. I think if I keep sampling, it will be worth it in the end. I just wonder if I should keep mapping them like I am...
I don'the know if Jason will be back or not... you should check his profile...
Interesting.
so you'd basically ignore the normal piano tuning and instead have to remember each octave represents a different string.
I've got the E and A strings done now, up to but not including the 12th fret. The E string is mapped from c1 to b1. A is mapped from c2 to b2.
I included a little tune with 2 patterns playing the identical melody to show the difference in realism between the notes when using 1 string vs 2.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t7x4c7cr7l9rm49/UA%20Ibanez.caustic?dl=0
Sounds truly nice..
How uneasy is it, to play each note, on the guitar, with exactly the same velocity, attack, etc... in order to get a well balanced, homogeneous file, in the end ??
For now it sounds good, and I guess it's not that easy..
I was playing it through earphones, and sure it sounds good.. There is some background white noise.. You should edit each sample with a low pass filter..
And also I've heard ticks ticks due to an imperfect looping.. Maybe you should make 2 versions.. One y, heavier, with the complete, uncut and not looped, samples.. And a lighter one, with shorter samples, looped..
Yes, sure the same note sounds differently according to the string used to play it.. Uneasy for a non-guitarist, to decide which one should be chosen.. And maybe it's uneasy even for a guitarist..
And what will be uneasy, too, will be: to make a good transition between the notes using one string, and the neighbour note, played on another string.. The transition between those 2 different timbres..
But for now, your ( still unfinished) work is full of promises..
Thanks o.q for the feedback. I also noticed the white noise and was leaning towards starting over. I think I'll do like you said and make a version with the original sustain intact. And when I'm done I'll post a zip file with all of the samples included so people can map them however they want.
I think the white noise I was getting is actually electrical noise. I tried switching cables and it helped, but it was still there. I also lowered the volume on my amp to almost nothing and although I can't hear it now, I kinda think it will show up when I amp it up in the editor. Any tips on how to get rid of it?
No, I'm not used to that kind of thing.. But what I heard on your samples, the noise was not so loud, and it can easily be filtered in the wav editor without cutting off too much harmonics, i guess.... (at least in the lower octaves )..
I think I found the source... I was too close to my home theater amp, so I unplugged it and now it's mostly gone. Stay tuned...
I was thinking..
When a guitarist plays chords, that is when he is in rythmic mode.. He will play them in the first frets, most of the time..
Whatever, in no way he would have one finger on a lower fret, on one string, and one finger on an upper fret, on another string..
Inversely, when he plays a solo, he will more often play the upper frets..
So maybe you could consider making a pair of soundfonts..
- One, more rythmic-oriented, with notes on the first frets, except for the last string where you would cover the whole length of it..
- One more solo-oriented, with notes on the higher frets, except for the first string where you would cover the whole octave or so..
That's just a possible choice.. Just suggesting..
You mean sort of like this?...
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pyquobpinnz0q0g/UA%20Ibanez%20test.caustic?dl=0
In this one I have 6 full samples (with no loop ponts) - one for each string, and they're mapped like the neck of a guitar just like before. The bottom E stretches over 2 octaves from c6-c8.
The tune btw is actually meant to be finger-picked on an acoustic.
Also I couldn't get rid of the noise, but I think it's better.
Pages