This is a QUESTION, but I'm asking for tips and tricks, so I hope this is the correct place. Also I'm talking about Android here, obviously on Mac and Windows there's tons of DAWs and other tools to do this
I'm wondering what you guys do as a work-around when creating drum sounds (or for that matter any sample) when it comes to timbre (EQ, filtering)
I often open a drum kit in Beatbox and think to myself "Man I wish I could cut some of the lower frequencies off that snare". Sometimes I want to find the frequency of the transient part of a kick drum and boost it (as I would when mixing live drums) using a parametric EQ and sweeping around till I find it.
The problem is that all the sample slots on the Beatbox or PCM synth go to the same output, same EQ/effects. The audio editor however doesn't have any features for EQ (or does it and I just didn't see them? that happens sometimes).
Obviously you can use multiple instances of Beatbox, one for each drum, but that would soon fill up all the machine slots and would be a nightmare to sequence (aside from trying to use Modular to do it maybe). But I suppose you could dial in sounds this way in a song file just for getting sounds, export that, then fly those in to the "real" song and load the samples...other way is to simply use another app to do it like Audio Evolution or something.
One thing I like about G-Stomper is that you can individually adjust filter for each sample as well as load more than 8, but it STILL doesn't have mute groups, WHUUUT?!
Anyway, what do you guys use for editing samples (whether it's for EQing or for other types of processing)? What are some workarounds for doing it entirely in Caustic?
of course it depends on the sample itself. the effects I normally use to get a better sound are:
- cabinet simulator
- multi-filter especially inv. bandpass
- para EQ
often I use several machines to optimise the sound (using modular with machine input). and if those are taking away too many slots I simply make some new samples of those and load them into a pcm synth.
that won't solve you're problem though
'Askar
https://www.soundcloud.com/xenoplas
So to "make samples" you just sequence a pattern with one hit of one sound, solo'ed, export the pattern as a wav file, load it back into PCM and trim off the end time?
I read that in 3.2 there is gonna be individual effects per drum sound so all this will be moot at least when it comes to drums, but I still like to hear about how you guys are exporting sounds and re-loading them back in.
>> I read that in 3.2 there is gonna be individual effects per drum sound so all this will be moot at least when it comes to drums, but I still like to hear about how you guys are exporting sounds and re-loading them back in.
I'm not sure you did. But happy to be wrong.
As previously mentioned, make you sounds, one hit, export the wav, reload into the beatbox or PCM
My latest track on show and tell
My Soundcloud page
as rob farley mentioned this is exactly the way to do it.
about that second thing though...
'Askar
https://www.soundcloud.com/xenoplas
I think it's actually effects being supported by the wav editor for 3.2. So not realtime.
For editing samples, yeah, the best way is to work one sound at a time and resave/load as needed.
But, if you want to get some control over a sound over the course of a song, let me walk you through this. Note: this is made immensely easier by the "export to stems" feature from the secret number pad code, but that feature won't matter when dealing with the beatbox.
1. Sequence your song however you want. Clips, automation, everything. Once you're done, save it as it's own .caustic file and export it as it's own .wav file. Name it something like "Song Name (Rough)". Try to avoid using the two master effects slots, but if you have to it's ok.
2. Take the sound you want to work with and delete it completely from the song. Let's take a snare drum, for instance. Go into the beatbox and delete the snare drum sample. Export the result as a .wav file again, and save it if you want to (name it "Song Name (minus snare)" or similar)
3. Reload "Song Name (Rough)" and delete everything except the sound you want to work with. So, in the case of a Snare sound, when you're done, you should have one beatbox in your machines and that beatbox should only have one snare loaded. Don't change the effects on the beatbox at this point unless you really want to. For the beatbox especially, this gives you a good way to change a drum sound over the course of a song without changing the sound of other drums on the same channel.
4. Load up a Modular synth and put in a "Machine Input". Route the output through a Filter and a saturator, then to stero output. Put a vinyl simulator and a phaser on the Mod synths effects slots. Now, assuming you didn't use effects on the original tracks main effects slots, put a multi-filter and cabinet simulator in those main FX slots. If you did use master effects on the main file, then ignore the vinyl simulator and phaser and instead put the multi-filter and cab sim in the mod synths effects slots.
5. Take a look at what you've got here. The basic sound you wanted to screw with, plus a secondary channel with it's own 3-band eq and a range of effects (delay, reverb, parametric equalizer, limiter, vinyl simulator, phaser, multi-filter, cabinet simulator). At this point it shouldn't be hard to see how playing with automation on the volume and panning on both the beatbox and modular would yield some interesting results. Just play with it a bit over time (automate everything) and then save this as it's own .caustic file ("Song Name"[part edit]) and export it to it's own .wav.
6. Open up Audacity on your home pc/laptop, or open up Audio Evolution Mobile on your Android device. I don't do iphone crap so I don't know what the option would be there. Also, Audacity is free, AEM is not. Load in the .wav file of the song that doesn't have the individual sound you worked on ("Song Name (minus snare)" in our case) and then load a second track containing the wav file of only the sond you worked on ("Song Name [part edit]"]. Hit play and you should see the results.
7. At this point you should be saying three things: 1)Can't I just do this in Caustic?; 2) What if I use all the other machine slots to mess with my original sound?; 3)What would happen if I did this to all the sounds in a single song?. The answer to the first question is just "no" and you'll need to find a workaround similar to the one I've just shown. The answer to those other two questions, though, are all up to how you would like to experiment.
8. Side note, automate everything you can on each sound. Go nuts with it. Save and export individually and often. :D
Yeah stems into Audio Evolution (which I have) is easy enough. I'd do it like this (assuming there's one beatbox, repeat if more):
1.) Make the tune in Caustic, keep making it until it's totally rad.
2.) Export stems and discard the Beatbox stem. So now you've got stems of all the parts except drums.
3.) Solo Beatbox and solo the kick drum, all you hear is the kick playing, export song (not stem)
4.) Solo the snare and repeat...etc etc..
So you have stems of each instrument and a "stem" of each drum sound separately. Off course I would have all hihats turned on when I export the hihats, I'd probably group any crash cymbals together too, toms would be together, etc.
Basically this lets you get a drum mix in Audio Evolution. Also it's easy enough to cut up and create patterns in Audio Evolution by slicing things up. Only issue with this is I'm not sure what kind of sidechain Audio Evolution has. I have it but I haven't used it much. So If I want the bass instrument sidechained to the kick...not sure what I'd do.
For the time-being, I outsource such editing and DSP..... PocketKit Projects are done this way..... for now....
I have a funny feeling mute groups will come to GSS in due time....
3.2 will offer effects in the sample editor, so you'll be able to create new kits of one-off kits in your beatbox by applying effect. But this won't be real-time. You "bake" the effect into the sample then hit save and your kit (the one in your track, not the reference kit on your disk) is now modified.
Check out the volca editor I released a while back to see what I mean.
awesome
'Askar
https://www.soundcloud.com/xenoplas
Hi Rej,
Will there be an option to preview the effect before 'baking' it?
yes, as soon as you add the effect, it will be audible when you play the sample. You can set the sample to loop and tweak the FX values as desired, A/B test using bypass even go to other menu operations and keep trimming, cropping, etc. You only need to stamp it down when you're done or if you want to apply another effect.
If you have CEVS, you can preview or even use it now to customize your kits now.... Just a little bit slower process now until the update. I use it alot right now, it is awesome to have as a mobile tool....
Even more awesome when it officially gets integrated into Caustic itself
@LektroTek Thanks for the push;) Fully agree that mute groups are essential. These have been planned since a while, fortunately the integration is already finished and will be part of the next hot fix release.
Btw. It's not only a single filter per track, you actually have one multi-filter + a parametric 3 band eq for each sample (in other words 3 more 12dB non-resonant filters).
who is he?
'Askar
https://www.soundcloud.com/xenoplas
The Gstomper dev (EDIT: I think I saw him on here, not sure who's who. Hey there if you're here) keeps saying it's planned... I actually never use that app because latency is still just a touch too high for realtime recording (Caustic is way better on my devices, no noticeable latency under CWM12 on Note Pro 12.2 and Stock lollipop with SAPA on Note 4, though not so good on Note 2 with Cyanide). But I really like how you can have a ton of sampler channels each with their own parameters, so for sequencing it's good.
I bought it though because I wanna support developement. Just like I bought Ntrack and Audio Evolution, but what do I use? Just Caustic.
N-Track is cool because you can apply effects to Soundfont channels which you can't do in AudioEvolution, but Ntrack is UGLY...well the piano roll editor looks ok. AudioEvolution looks great but is a hassle, you can't move anything around while playback is going on. I really like how, in Caustic, playback continues while you move pattern blocks and browse menus and whatnot.
And stereo outs right? Man...people are gonna hate me for saying this...and I don't mean to say this should affect anyone who already paid for it...but I think you could raise the price at this point. I'd certainly pay for these features you're adding. Or if you did a "deluxe" version that had more of these features..I'm on board.
I thought that volca editor had to do with some piece of hardware I don't have so I never checked it out, I'll look at it now.
I'm late to the party...as soon as I saw CEVS I figured, "oh it's for the Korg thingy...I don't have that, so..." Didn't realize I coudl just use it as a sample editor and save to wav. I need to get Xposed working on my tablet (which is running CWM12 which doesn't have multi window) so I can open it in a second window.
That is Andreas, the app dev of G-Stomper Studio..... he's been hanging around here for a few years now...... he knows his stuff, super nice guy to work with; and he and Rej often help each other out with things when one gets a hang up on something.... but don't tell anybody
Thanks for the flowers, Jason;) and for clearing this up
you're the one behind G-Stomper? wow I never would've guessed that. so G-Stomper is also a single developer app? great work you did there. to be honest I prefer caustic over it (mainly because I'm a bit too stupid for G-Stomper - and well caustic simply is the best) but it's a really good app!
'Askar
https://www.soundcloud.com/xenoplas
You may find that you can benefit from utilizing both programs; each with their own arsenal of powerful tools, and abilities to create, and extract audio content from each other....
I will show you what I mean in the coming weeks......
As soon as android gets on board with that plug stuff ported from linux...and we can route audio and MIDI from one prog to the other...SHOOOOT.
I agree they both have strengths. I like the sound quality of the VA Beast and I like being able to have a ton of samples...I find with Beatbox I'm usually wanting just 2 or 3 more slots, so of course I can add another beatbox or use PCM instead but that's a different level of complexity, and that PCM template preset with all single note silent samples DOES help...
On my devices I can do real-time playing with external keyboard better on Caustic, so anytime I want human feel and parts played on a keyboard, I use caustic (or a soundfont in ntrack or AudioEvolution). Another thing I haven't been able to do in G-Stomper is move notes off grid...there may be a setting I haven't seen, but it doesn't look like you can freely place notes for flams and rhodes/B3 type playing styles where a note is preceded by a note a half step below it just a fraction of a second before it. And I do those ALL THE TIME since I listened to a bunch of Jamiroquai when I was starting out and that kind of thing always happens in acid jazz rhodes licks.
I LOVE that the arpeggiator in G-stomper can be taken off synch and I love how it's part of the synth, Less hassle than routing up a modular.
They're definitely both good, would love to be able to "re-wire" (whatever it ends up being called if it ever shows up on Android) them like you can do on iOS. Samsung has that functionality built into it's SAPA enabled apps, but that's only on Samsung and only certain devices.
I actually avoided G-Stomper for several months because of the name, I thought it was a guitar effects modeling app.
Personal preference is that I'll use G-Stomper as a way to demo sequences I build in Caustic, then go back and copy whatever I come up with in Caustic itself. I also prefer GSR for laying down an independent drum clip or track.
The Beast, on the other hand, is a damn fine instrument and I've tortured that poor thing to no end trying to mine sounds out of it.
I have dreams of using G-Stomper as a MIDI controler for the mixer and sequencer panels for Caustic. Dreams are fun.
Thanks a lot for the kind words, it's great to hear that you're using both;) I fully agree with this approach.
And yes, thats correct, GSS is like Caustic a single person project.
"Another thing I haven't been able to do in G-Stomper is move notes off grid..."
That is missing, yes. I have something in planning in this direction, it will be similar to the solution in the Elektron machines.
"I have dreams of using G-Stomper as a MIDI controler for the mixer and sequencer panels for Caustic."
This dream actually came true 2 weeks ago, not on the same device, but by using a second device and hook it up over MIDI.
Since GSS 4.3 you can send out all kind of MIDI data. If I find time I'll try that and create a video of it, I'd love to see Caustic and GSS interacting with each other over MIDI. I've just successfully synced two GSS instances on two different devices over MIDI these days, so I think it should be not too complicated firing MIDI events from GSS to Caustic.
Android M will bring Virtual (inter-app) MIDI so it's not that far off ... as long as we both support the feature, you'll be able to drive Caustic from G-Stomper soon enough and hopefully one day the other way around too. Knowing Andreas, he'll have his update ready the week after virtual MIDI is available and you suckers will have to wait 6 months for me to get around to it for Caustic.
Hahahaha......oh wait you said six months heheheh
But we should have learned by now that good things are always worth the wait.....
This is interesting. I downloaded G Stomper Studio a few days ago after I saw a video on YouTube of its driving a midi synth - very impressive. Haven't managed to get it working yet but I think thats down to a faulty MIDI/USB converter and no time to investigate
Fingers crossed for Caustic to follow with MIDI out though
PS: G Stomper Studio looks great BTW but again no time to learn it at the moment
Setting up quick grooves on GSS is quite easy..... If you've tinkered with an Electribr or MC505 or similar groovebox, then GSS will make sense to you more quickly; but GSS offers much more flexibility and signal routing and effects options.
I've got PocketKit Project running on it now, as well as a few other things.. I will release the first BPM Phrases package soon, that will really get you going quickly and add many new options beyond the traditional use of GSS...
I will have videos running so featuring it, soon.....
@Rej Yes, the new MIDI libraries in Android M look promising. However, I have my doubts that running multiple audio apps like Caustic or GSS at the same time will be easy to handle for the CPU
. Hope it proves me wrong. Not sure if I'll be that fast with inter app MIDI ;).
@FPC Thank you, FPC. Good to hear that you like the midi hookup video. I just uploaded one more clip this moment, with 3 different hardware devices hooked up (with respect to Rej, I don't want to post a video clip about my own app in his forum, but you'll find it easily if you look for it on youtube). Hope I can create one with Caustic and GSS soon.
Regarding the USB to MIDI DIN interface. I'd recommend the ESI MidiMate II, which is one of the very few fully class-compliant USB to DIN interfaces.
I need to get one of those myself. I'm considering building another MIDI controller with the TP-80 waterfall keys but the encoder is DIN-5 out, so if it worked for you, it should work for me...
And yes, dittos, on running multiple audio apps of this caliber, I've had Caustic, GSS, CEVS, and poked around with AudioEvolution at the same time (not interconnected) and things got a bit wonky after a while, and this is when run on a google android device.....
A new one is not more than 40$ as far as I know. Great is that the 2 DIN ports can be used as IN or OUT, so you can use the interface as IN/IN, IN/OUT or OUT/OUT. I also hear that you can use each port for IN and OUT at the same time (I didn't test that so far).
MUTE GROUPS! Just downloaded gonna try and make some tricky hihat patterns later.
Thanks planeth that's actually the one I've got. Mikrosonic recommended it for use with their RD4 groovebox. Maybe I've just got a faulty USB OTG. Exciting times to be had with GSS I'm sure - that's a jaw-dropping new YouTube video too, just wow!
((but will always be a Caustic man he he
))
If the encoder can handle i/o traffic, why not?
What was that about waiting 6 months for Caustic updates? If that were the case, we'd all be looking forward to the release of 3.4 any day now :P.
(I kid, I kid....)
Being a family man, myself with 3 girls, I know how tough it is to keep up with even the smallest of tasks in any project, and good things take soooooo much time....... and it can be frustrating at times, I bet for Rej as well, especially when you have all these things planned out, and ready to roll, but it all gets caught in the bottleneck called life
It's all good....
Oh yeah, sure. I completely understand "life happens".
But he left that one wide open :)
I am really happy to see Rej and Andreas are supportive of each other; Both Caustic and Gstomper are pushing the envelope and setting the bar high for the future of music production. The idea of being able to meld Caustic, Gstomper or another app in an organic way is sort of a holy grail for me and It's so cool to hear it mentioned here.
@Jason, have you looked at the Arturia Beatstep Pro ? I think that may be the midi controller/sequencer that finally speaks to what many people have longed for.
Just seen that beatstep pro, yeah, its super, sick may hafta cop it.
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