Caustic Song file (optional):
Disclaimer: this is for more advanced users as you will need to understand how to use the modulars input modules and how to route signals through filters and other machines.
With all of the research I have done, articles, podcasts etc...about sound design and how to make things sound thick and loud the thing that is a constant is layering. You will need to stack sounds on top of each other to get that awesome fat sound you desire.
What many top producers do is layer a few synths with the same preset and tweak one slightly from the other changing the timbre and giving you a chord like effect. The problem comes when you try and change things too much as it causes phasing between the sounds and will make things sound worse.
The next step after you get your sound the way you want it is to resample it. To do this you simply export your loop and reload it back into a sampler. Caustic doesn't have a sampler but it does have the pcmsynth. The problem with this is the fact that the pcmsynth plays back in mono which will make your nice fat layered sound sound subpar again.
So the reason for this tip is in preparation for stereo support in the pcmsynth. It is a good idea to separate sound design from the writing process as you can simply go to your library of your own sounds for inspiration while writing a track. It really does make things easier as you aren't fiddling with filters and effects while trying to flesh out a whole track. So having a custom library of your own sounds that you can use in the updated pcmsynth will be really nice.
Included is a caustic file that shows how I achieved a really nice super saw lead. This is just one of the many awesome things you can do with layering machines and signal routing in Caustic.
I did something similar yesterday, I alreadyhad an 8 oscillator saw only slightly defined from each other, sampled in a pcm synth. Then I put 3 pcm synth with 8 notes playing and created a short song, and exported to the pcm synth. I got a nice pad sound with the help of the pcmsynth filter sweeps and attacks. Very ambient.
Whenever I meddle with more than two saws, it sounds ambient lol.
I make creative EDM utilising Caustic and many other Daws. See for yourself on my SoundCloud, you may like it :) https://soundcloud.com/xandyaudio thanks!
Yes, I second this call to get used to designing layered sounds as 3.2 will make this better and more fun in two ways:
- Stereo sample support in PCMSynth
- A new tool to generate of PCMSynth instruments from whatever is in your rack (customizable).
As for making supersaw sounds .... I wouldn't waste too much time on that
Holy sh!t rej,
Every thing that I've ever thought about about how caustic could be improved, you've been implementing secretly...
I just love this app...
I can't wait for 3.2. All this stuff you've been hinting... I want!
I make creative EDM utilising Caustic and many other Daws. See for yourself on my SoundCloud, you may like it :) https://soundcloud.com/xandyaudio thanks!
Enough hinting Rej! Give us Beta!
Just kidding man, I know you will release it when you can. ;)
In the meantime I will keep messing around making more noises for use in the new pcmsynth. Can't wait though, very excited for what's coming.
Just reread the part where you said "rack". Really curious now.
Sounds like a bouncing feature if it so its amazing:-)
Builderz Pro Style..........
Yeah sounds like he has a setup where you select the slots you want in the rack and bounce them into a PCMSynth.
What is still the mystery is how he will keytrack them, I am guessing with wild speculation that the customizable part is maybe root note, note range, how dense you want the samples inserted into the PCMSynth, velocity and note length.
and potential loop points if applicable? But what about tone and ENV shaping of the host synth sounds...... I'm curious how this will play out..... especially if a user intends to merge multiple synths' sounds together into a single PCMSyhtn preset.
This will get interesting, when this pops up for testing soon
I was thinking ages ago when considering making an fr for this ( not needed now)
It's best use will be making modular synth presets polyphonic, sure, you get less control for quick fixes or automation, but if you're happy with the sound and don't feel like it needs automating, you got an 8 note polyphonic modular synth, easy.
Same for the other mono machines...
It would essentially be 8 modulars.
And with stereo support (well actually what's aboutthis say we can already do)
We can make a lead sound, export to pcm, twice in two note ranges, and then pan the first half right and the other left, and create some cool stereo melodies (I do this already but need 2 modulars).
Anyway a very simple and versatile feature!
I make creative EDM utilising Caustic and many other Daws. See for yourself on my SoundCloud, you may like it :) https://soundcloud.com/xandyaudio thanks!
By the way... The winky face after the superstar comment, is that some kind of hint for a new synth?
Maybe.
I make creative EDM utilising Caustic and many other Daws. See for yourself on my SoundCloud, you may like it :) https://soundcloud.com/xandyaudio thanks!
I basically wanted to show that complex sound design is possible inside of Caustic. I have been layering in Ableton with similar methods and it eats so much cpu you have to bounce to audio anyway. While it is much easier to set up custom racks in Ableton you can still do the same thing in Caustic with a small amount of effort, and for $10 vs the $550 I spent on Ableton its totally worth the extra effort to achieve similar results. So users that are thinking that by going to a full fledged DAW they will make way better sounds I beg to differ. It will be easier to mix in a full DAW though, that's hard for any app to compete with.
Beta in the next few days I promise but this is how the "merge rack to instrument" will work:
You build up your rack by placing all the synths you want for your layered sound, configure presets, effects, EQ, etc. Then you go to this screen which is the setup for the instrument merge:
Playing a note on the preview keyboard here will send that note event to all machines in your rack automatically. You then can adjust levels for each machine while you listen. Now one cool part of this (I think) is that you can also use the Beatbox and instead of having it follow the note - which would be pointless as its range is only C3-G3 or something - it can be set up to trigger the same sample for any note played. That way you can add a bit of snare snap or kick drum punch to your notes, sounds really cool. You can also use this "locked note" feature to have one synth just play a drone note to accompany the other synths ... possibilites...
Then, you press export and get this:
So you choose how the system will simulate someone playing the note (hold time, velocity) you say how much time you want to allow for decay and then specify how often you want it to sample (every note, every two notes, octave, etc). You press export and it goes through playing your synths and recording the output. It then creates a PCMSynth file (or ZIP'ed WAVs) of your samples and automatically assigns the correct root, low high notes. What you get out is something ready to be loaded into PCMSynth and get exactly the same sound as you'd get from having tons of CPU-hungry machines.
Of course, it's not perfect, you don't get continuity on LFOs, you don't get loop points and you can't automate the internal synths that were used to generate the sound but if consider it like a sample you got from a content pack rather than remembering that you once had control over all of its parts, it's pretty handy.
anyway, coming soon.
My goal of course is to put Jason out of business.
That's funny, you said that the two years ago.... http://www.singlecellsoftware.com/comment/4698#comment-4698
Yeah I remember
But can you get this kind of living and breathing sound playing live like this?
Mind=Blown!
That was the joke Jason, I'm constantly behind your ideas.
I'll hook this thing up to MIDI for sure. I might by hard on the CPU though, depending on what it's driving..
Is there a way we can use that pcmsynth file creator from other sources? Meaning, can we plug in .wav files from elsewhere and have your nifty program create a preset for us? It wouldnt even need to be mobile. But yeah, that does make what Jason does 10 times easier. People will still buy your packs though J, as many new users dont know how to make good sounds.
Hahaha I know, just playing
Yeah, I'll see how the N9 handles this load..... MIDI on this thing is fantastic
@mekanism, well if you name your external WAV files with the root note at the end like Lead_C2, Lead_A#2, etc and put them in a ZIP file, the PCMSynth will load it and automatically assign ranges to fit the whole KB. You can then edit the other params and save as PCMSynth.
You can do that now with 3.1, is that what you mean?
The only thing you need is a prog capable of creating a ZIP, that's pretty easy on mobile and desktop.
7zip works great on Windows, and it's free, and compatable with Caustic (when export to Zip format) I use it for creating CausticPack content...
Does this tool let you export multiple WAV files, right? Render each played note as a seperate file, as you stated earlier to keep sample order for multi-sample import into the PCM -- so that you can Zip them later to load into the PCM, is that how I'm understanding this? For general layered sounds, I recommend at least 3 samples per octave for somewhat minimized file size of that preset; or if that's not an issue for you, go for 4/ octave.
Cool new feature, and so easy way to make stereo stacked sounds in few clicks. I really like the way Caustic is evolving.
@Jason, you can export to PCMSynth or ZIP. The zip just contains the WAV files that get used, named as [preset_note].
... and we have a timeline for 3.2 beta! Sweet!
Rej, I like the way your program works better than going the .zip route as it is all self contained. I guess the issue would be quality loss if you decided to pitch 1 sample up the whole range though, or would you not notice?
Just took the time to re-read in detail when I'm not trying to multi task and what you said about the beatbox is going to be really cool. I can see this being really useful for layering foley sounds in with basslines. It adds some crunch to the whole sound when you use crumpled paper noises with basses. Or you can use it to layer drum hits. The sound design aspect of Caustic is about to get really fun!
And the supersaw comment has my interest piqued as well. New "lead" synth in the works?
Wow! Did not see that coming...boo yah!
@Rej, when you say "you press export and it goes through playing your synths and recording the output. It creates a PCMSynth file (or ZIP'ed WAVs) of your samples and automatically assigns the correct root, low high notes. What you get out is something ready to be loaded into PCMSynth " ... do you mean that it creates a PCM file that has already assigned the correct notes from, say, c1 to c7 of all the mashed up synths? ( that sounds super advanced) or is that still up to the user to plug in?
Soooo is longer loop samples....... r they gonna be possible?
With time stretch and the rubberband... ((( hoping i got the terminology right ))) and time signature. Looks like 3.2. Is onna roll!!!!
Just still curious about long samples say.... 1 1/2 - to - 4 measure loops.
Most of what i do; i could /would use pcm sampling like this.
You'd notice that, but what are we talking about ?
I'm talking about how we make presets now using a few or more samples per octave and have to name them correctly before they are zipped to get them to distribute in the range correctly. It looks like you have the option in the new preset maker to automatically do that as I assume it can pull all the semitones from the source.
I was thinking of how the preset maker could import .wavs and automatically distribute them but if you only imported 1 file it wouldn't sound good if you tried to use the whole key range. So actually the way to make presets now works fine. I kind of answered my own question haha.
That looks pretty darn cool. I'm stoked for this update...
All the stuff I wanted, well... It doesn't matter now. Rej has implemented the lot!
I make creative EDM utilising Caustic and many other Daws. See for yourself on my SoundCloud, you may like it :) https://soundcloud.com/xandyaudio thanks!
Ha, that is exactly what I had envisioned when you said export tool with options.
Any chance of creating a mode in the PCMSynth that uses one WAV sample and applies the start and end points to the same wav that was loaded in sample 1 for all the other samples?
Its this even possible in your code?
@ian: That's exactly what it does. You configure the mix levels, press export and you get a PCMSynth files that's ready to play that sounds like a whole rack full of instruments
@derrtiblu: You can already load samples up to 23 seconds at 44KHz, that's more than 4 measures at "normal" bpm. I'm not sure what this has to do with this thread though..
@mike: The chances of one sample's loop points validly applying to another are almost nil. There's no magic there, loop points are a bitch. With multiple machines running their own LFOs and effects, plus stereo, I'd say forget about loop points in this case. Just export the preset for the longest note you need and set the playback mode to Note On/Off.
Rej I wasn't speaking of this feature. It had to do with using the same wav file for "slices" using start and end points of the same wav file. No loops points.
It had to do with something I made as a PCMSynth creator and in Bitwig I can export this as a mutisample using their editor. I talked to you about this a while go in that I needed to create wav slices from the original wav using the XML's start/end sample locations.
So my question was just if it was easy or not in your code to use the same file as each sample but use start and end points to slice that wav without loading the wav like 10 times for the same sample but with different start/end points of the same wav.
Rej, this looks amazing! I assume that all effects (instrument and master) along with eq, pan and settings will be included when recording.
I feel a bit cheeky putting a feature request in already, but seeing as you are currently focused on this. Is automation totally infeasible, or just slower? I ask because I've found that lots of my more interesting presets are really spiced up by pattern automation.
If it helps, I can describe the following manual algorithm I would use for recording (both song and pattern) automation.
1/ Set up caustic (e.g. remove recording count in, metronome etc). Start at note C0
2/ Press stop twice to return to 0.0.0
3/ Press play and record the note (with the chosen Hold and Release, run through the instrument mixer you have shown)
4/ Export
5/ Move to next note in sequence, EXIT if at last note
6/ GOTO 2
My Soundcloud profile is _dredge_
Wooooooooooooow. :) I can't believe so small app can make all this miracles. :-)
I can't wait for 3.2 version. Now i see beta is coming in next few days. I hope that regular users can also try beta version before Google Play Store Apearence.
Juuust great. Finally i can do whatever i want with sound.
Check out my new track.
https://youtu.be/PflagFexu5g
@edgey, yes, it's recording "what you hear". For the playback/automation feature, what about the case where you're building a song, you get halfway and realize you want to bounce down 3 of your synths to make room. If I play, you'd have to clear out the first couple of bars of your songs or else they'd get recorded.
I guess there's room for a check box next to preview... Ok everyone, beta's going to be a few more days, it's edgey's fault
Head.Is.Exploding
I feel like the little brother running along behind the older kids, "hey, wait up for me you guys!". :-)
Just when I'm starting to learn my way around, Rej is about to open the door to the next Caustic universe!
JHS
P.S. re: original post, I did already stumble upon the usefulness of layering multiple machines with the same pattern. Making that sound into a new instrument is a really cool idea.
JHS
https://soundcloud.com/jhsound-2
This I will have to take a closer look at when I´m not so awe´d out!
https://soundcloud.com/squirrelonmars
https://www.youtube.com/c/squirreIs
https://www.facebook.com/squirrelonmars
Oops, Sorry guys.
Yeah, I didn't consider bouncing down from an existing track. A check box for include/exclude automation sounds ideal.
Can I ask for one further thing to be added to the wishlist (but at a lower priority). I know caustic can already read SFZ format. Would it be able to write it too?
Cheers
My Soundcloud profile is _dredge_
Why would I write a SFZ exporter?
There are people spend more time on sound design than composition (e.g. most of SeemlessR's videos). Exporting to SFZ allows easy import into other desktop DAW's and you could market Caustic as a mobile sound design tool, as well as a mobile DAW. Some people I've suggested caustic to don't want to create a whole track on their mobile, but they may be more interested in using it if they can create an awesome new synth patch in 10 minutes.
As I said, lower priority. I wouldn't want this suggestion to delay the release. But interoperability is always valuable.
My Soundcloud profile is _dredge_
I dont get why you need sfz, isnt the same thing as a .wav but compressed like a .zip file?
I dont need sfz. My main DAW is caustic. I just think it could be useful.
sfz is a text file that points to (uncompressed?) samples. e.g.
// ------------------------------
// Sonatina Symphonic Orchestra
// ------------------------------
// Horn
// ------------------------------
<group>
ampeg_release=0.650
ampeg_attack=0.600
ampeg_vel2attack=-0.600
fil_veltrack=11000
fil_type=lpf_2p
cutoff=120
<region>
sample=samples\horn\horn-e2.wav
lokey=e2
hikey=f2
pitch_keycenter=e2
tune=30
....
My Soundcloud profile is _dredge_
Interesting, so it contains data to tell a sampler how to play it back. That's cool.
It's kind of funny we are making requests before we even have a Beta though. It just shows our enthusiasm for what's next.
I cant wait :)
https://m.youtube.com/user/selfinflict3?feature=mhum
Hey. So speaking of pcmsynth, I was wondering whether you can choose how you want your notes to be pitched (e.g, you could choose for the pcm to use Rubberband(or the one that changes pitch without speed).
This would be useful for vocal clips and many other things. Iwas just wonderingwhether you thought of having that?
I make creative EDM utilising Caustic and many other Daws. See for yourself on my SoundCloud, you may like it :) https://soundcloud.com/xandyaudio thanks!
You can pitch individual samples in thd PCM any way you want
Just thought it might be easier to let the pcm do it itself, rather than doing it to a sample 10 times... Just pop in a sample check a box and go...
I make creative EDM utilising Caustic and many other Daws. See for yourself on my SoundCloud, you may like it :) https://soundcloud.com/xandyaudio thanks!
It sounds like you are referring to time stretching, in which case Rej mentioned in another thread there will be stretching of audio in the new sample editor.
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