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skarabee
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New Tips and Tricks video

Caustic Song file (optional): 

 New Tips and Tricks tutorial video on Youtube, about multiband parallel compression in Caustic. The parallel compression, or NY compression, gives you the ability to mix dry and processed signal. In this case, you have 5 channels, 1 dry and 4 compressed bands.

this example shows a 4 band compressor, but this could be reduced to 2 or 3 bands as well.

(Caustic file upload doesn't work this morning, will try later ; )

 

pablo64
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Joined: 09/20/2012 - 07:17
Great videos and excellent

Great videos and excellent tips Skarabee. Thank you for producing these I'm sure they will help a lot of Caustic users.
 

K.Boog
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Joined: 07/23/2013 - 07:22
Thanks' Skarabee for another

Thanks' Skarabee for another great vid man!!!yes

Jason
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Joined: 03/23/2012 - 21:32
I remember the first poke at

I remember the first poke at this experiment..... Nice work.... Just want to warn you though, there are some minor phase issues to be aware of.   The can be minimized though, by full cut of Mid and High EQ on the LowComp -- 9:00 Low Cut and FullCut on the HighEQ on the LowMidComp -- Full LowCut and 9:00cut on HighEQ for MidHighComp -- and Full Cut Low and Mid EQ on the HighComp machine.  

(SubSynth WhiteNoise test and Sine and Square Wave test can help set this up for whatever particular instrument you are preparing for multi-comp)

I've run other musical instruments thru this method and get some interesting results, so be aware and let your ear help you tune each machine "comp frequency band" to shape your tone, and minimize phase cancellations that can affect your overall mix.

I find that a well-tuned 2-band comp/limit in Caustic works very well for alot of content.

That said, good find, and nice work on this one Skarabee.  The Vocoder in C3 is undoubtably one heck of a powerful tool in our arsenal.

yescool  EIPSO Thumbs Up for sonic awesomeness  ---BTW the funky modulated reverb at the end totally sweet

skarabee
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Thank you guys! Glad you like

Thank you guys! Glad you like it.

About phase problems: I also made some test with white noise. It seems to me that the channel processing is not parallel, that's why I noticed in the video to keep the vocoders right after the source signal. To hear this, just replace the drums with a white noise, and while running caustic, try to move the source machine in other slots: the slight delay in the process involve phase issues that you can easily ear on the fly.

I'm not sure that tweaking the EQ knobs on the vocoded channels can reduce phase issues. In theory, this would add phase problems, even without the noticed short delay. So I prefer to adjust the source material before processing and leave the vocoder's EQ flat, but it can sometimes save your ass, despite the theory...;-)  All depends of the source signal and how the filters are set. Sometimes phase mistmatch can be creative.

And of course, the more channels and filters, and the more phase problems. As Jason said, a well tuned 2 band comp is enough most of times. I just made a classical 4 bands for demo purpose. 

 

Still not able to post the caustic file...

DJBR
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Joined: 07/15/2012 - 04:18
Subbed. Excellent work!

Subbed. Excellent work!


Paint Huffing Pit Bull Puncher

Jason
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Joined: 03/23/2012 - 21:32
I meant the EQ bands in the

I meant the EQ bands in the mixer console itself for each vocoder's channels.....

The cool thing is that your trick allows for complete flexibility over tone shaping..... like your funky reverb trick at the end of the video.... that was sooooo cool.

Now if Rej creates an IFX for a multi-band Comp (since it IS possible and doesn't appear to eat the CPU too badly) this could be a handy tool for the Master FX section, for those who want to use it....

While I'm dreaming.... cool

 

GrimShades
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Joined: 11/11/2013 - 06:47
Great tip and video....many

Great tip and video....many thanks

Jason
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Joined: 03/23/2012 - 21:32
Yeah I noticed the delay

Yeah I noticed the delay shift.... "non-parallel" processing too.... you're right.... Then, based on that, do a sort of "BBE Sonic Maximizer" effect and set up the high band comps first and end your fourth Vocoder Low Band on the 5th slot...... I'll try that, maybe we can do a A/B and see if you or I can hear the difference of the high frequencies coming to your ear first (that's the theory behind BBE technology)

 

mekanism
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Joined: 06/16/2012 - 19:34
I kind of don't see the point

I kind of don't see the point in doing this of you have to place the vocoders right after the source machine, it just isnt practical in the scheme of a full song. I'm working on a track now where I put 3 vocoders as 3 parrallel compressors on the last 3 slots but if what you said is true than I have a bunch of phase issues which might explain why my bass sounds crappy. I think I will delete the vocoders and try something else.

skarabee
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@ Jason +1 for the BBE effect

@ Jason +1 for the BBE effect. I tried something else: I opened the stereo field on the Hi channel using the width knob, wich is a short delay too. In case of drums, that keep the lows centered and give som "air" to the drums.

 @ mekanism: all depends of the number of tracks and processing you have before the vocoders. Does it hurt to have the vocoders channels closer to the source in your case? 

Jason
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Joined: 03/23/2012 - 21:32
Haha really?(Width Knob use

Haha really?(Width Knob use on specific band frequencies)  I'll have to try that one out....... you just can't do that in Cubase now can you?   LOL

I've used the BBE VST plugin on a few things (works amazingly well with elect. guitar thru amp modellers BTW)

 

Rej - Dev
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the processing is done in

the processing is done in rack order, so the vocoders don't need to be RIGHT after the source, as long as they're placed after (and not fed back into another previous machine) you're fine.

skarabee
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@Rej : I remember that you

@Rej : I remember that you mentionned it in another thread. A short delay is noticeable when you put the source after the vocoder. 

@ jblann1 : Yes, I can do this in Cubase or in Reaper ;-) There is always a trick when you know what you want.

>send> filter/compression>stereo enhancer or widener

But the magic is that you can do it now in a pocket studio!

Jason
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Joined: 03/23/2012 - 21:32
O i c what you mean..... I

O i c what you mean..... I dont miss those big DAW days these days..... Wow talk about stress haha

mekanism
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@skarabee- The thing about my

@skarabee- The thing about my track is that I'm running multiple machines (at different times) through the vocoder so I cant really move them.  They are placed after every other machine though so if what Rej said is true than maybe I am ok.  

In the future maybe Rej can work on expanding the compressor to include multiband or make a new insert multiband compressor.  I would also like to to see beatbox channel specific sidechaining or a built in eq for side chaining, but I wont request those for a while as Rej has too many requests at the moment.

Jason
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Joined: 03/23/2012 - 21:32
I asked Rej about this

I asked Rej about this briefly some time back, and hi reply to me was something along the lines of CPU-useage for a multi-band anything..... which means a serious rolloff of each band (not a standard 1rst or 2nd-order cutoff (approx 6dB/oct) but to achieve a straight cutoff or anything close enough to minimize phase issues (we're talking 24-46db rolloff/octave) will consume alot of resources from what I understood him to say.

What Scarabee did, was pretty much the same thing using 4 vocoders, but the rolloffs on the Multi-filter FX Modules are (If I am correct) 1st to 2nd order rolloffs, and may lead to phase issues for certain sounds or content, depending on your setup and other factors....

But who knows?  Maybe Rej will suprise us one day with one, and I'll eat another piece of humble pie cool

Barking_Mad
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Joined: 12/03/2013 - 11:06
*whoooooshhhh* right over my

*whoooooshhhh* right over my head this thread has gone!

Rej - Dev
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I looked at expanding the

I looked at expanding the master 3-band EQ to a multi-band compressor (in essence the band gains just become make-up gain for the compressors and you add extra controls for compression for those who want to enable it), can't remember where I got with that... indecision

It is expensive, but maybe if that's the only one in the rack it could be possible. An insert, I doubt it right now.

 

But maybe to stop this madness of using a CPU hungry vocoding algorithm to simply route dry signal ... crying

Jason
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Joined: 03/23/2012 - 21:32
Hahaha well Rej, I think you

Hahaha well Rej, I think you now have an idea for a new machine simply to create an AuxBux for IFX routing because there is sooooo much you can do with it, and I'm working on some things to showcase the possibilities of it, and will make its precense known in Essentials pack #3 soon.....

skarabee
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+1 for the master 3 band comp

+1 for the master 3 band comp. And also for the Aux machine. Maybe this one could have one filter and a LFO inside. I have some thought about it, see you in the "feature request soon" ;-)

Jason
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Skarabee, I think we struck

Skarabee, I think we struck gold.... we'll probably this in 3.1 or 3.2..... I hope.

Fun times... cool

Rej - Dev
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It's a cool trick, but really

It's a cool trick and this kind of creative stuff definitely has my blessings, but really this is a workaround to get another set of features (more effects, multiband compression) and I'd rather just work on the actual features. For example, if I gave you control over mixer wiring you could do this without using a machine.. but no that's probably not for 3.1 or 3.2

mike
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Yeah, its for 3.0.5

Yeah, its for 3.0.5

Rej take my advice, you eat this stuff in the morning, features will be flying out of the majical forest and appearing from thin air. It will turn you into 10 men. Trust me... this is my secret.

mekanism
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Do you fart rainbows after

Do you fart rainbows after eating that?

mike
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Joined: 12/18/2011 - 15:53
No, just features.

No, just features.

Jason
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hahaha that's funny.......  

hahaha that's funny.......   Well if an Aux Bus is available, as a machine even, that would be soooooo cool...... Vocoder without the vocoder heehe

But hey Rej, if you give me control over the wiring of the mixer, then its all over....  yeah I know rainbow dreams, while holding my umbrella.... cuz the unicorn calls it rain surprise

Pan65
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Joined: 12/02/2012 - 12:04
Yep, aux-buses would be

Yep, aux-buses would be really nice. But remember that each mixer channel would need send to be able to route to them so we still got some UI issues to take care of before that can be implemented.

paulovski
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Joined: 09/19/2012 - 06:13
If inputs are selected in a

If inputs are selected in a similar way to vocoder modulators, and each input has a level control, what ui issue?

 

 

Jason
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Joined: 03/23/2012 - 21:32
Agreed....

Agreed....

derrtiblu
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I just took time two read

I just took time two read this whole entire post.

Not as complicated as sum. But fairly simple in quality details.

i would say if it's a machine...... it would have two be in every trk. Weather used..... per every users choice and decision. Why do i put it like this? As something of expansion of fx rack. Thus. The offset of 2 effects slots for all 14 machine slots 2 mixers for 14 machines.

step back everyone and where would something of an auxbus fit?

At the beginning of the fx's or the mixers??
Thus if it's before mixers. Then the expansion of the fx makes more since. Right

i mean this multi band is what i'm after. But i'm still limited of all the effects i may wanna put else where.

Sooooooo

My idea is difficult enuff. Cause can there be one or more than one fx added? And where how?

As say u have a combo effect. Sounds already like it's drawning too much cpu. But..... in either of the below list could this work? Or is this idea rushing in two something we all not thinking on?

Sooo many damm questions!!!!

As i mean in a combo it opens up the regular way. But u add multiple effects ok u created a combo and it splits a machine slot for more than one effects u use on one machine. So u still limited. ((( just buying mr. Rej time ))) thus expansion of a machine slot or two thus three mixers. Three or more effects.

edited txt

i guess u can say mr. Rej we all concerned about stereo conversion. But at the risk of it sounding dammmmm goooooood!!!! But what we will create two make it sound good. Thus the transfer of how it sounds does matter two us. But the personal functionality is i would say is a unison answer.