Jason, this did come up when Rej and I were talking, guess who suggested it... Rej, he said wouldn't it be kewl if you could link more than one knob from the control face(I thought about this as well). We agreed this would be phase 2 after the initial workings are ironed out and Caustic is loading the presets created in the app correctly.
Awesome.... Builderz Pro will utilize such a possible feature as this, and will seriously simplify things for most users, as the Modular will be my main focus and tool for what I have planned, but after kicking PKP2 out the door (still need to finish up the iOS version and get that out) I am taking a brain break for the rest of the week at least before I dive into this new nightmare
Yeah Rej is really busy with his life atm so there is not time frame for this project. I sent him an image last night to show him I already had the Acid preset loaded, parsed and displaying in components and controls in two separate lists.
I also have drag and drop hooked up, selection management and custom skin support. With a little properties pane to eventually edit individual parameters of the controls on the grid.
For now I will be taking a break until Rej can catch up and get some free time. I don't want to stress any rush or importance with this since it will take some of Rej's time to get it working on his end.
Just had a thought, regarding the whole skinning thing... Isn't this going to bloat the crap out of the presets? Can there be a default bunch of controls that people can draw from which are held in one common place... I just have this fear than my phone will be awash with hi res tgas that may or may not ever be used.
I think a plain plate that uses text instead of baked image text with 'standard' controls so essentially no big tgas are stored.
So you'd have slider, knob, big knob, switch etc and then be able to place text next to them (which are stored as text not baking a big back plate image).
I appreciate big tgas make life easier but phone storage is still a premium on my phone at least.
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The default workings of this use a shared single tga that a skinner could skin. It would only be the adventurous that would actually create a new skin tga and you would be knowingly downloaded/installing it.
This was one of Rej's concerns and using a shared texture map for 3/4 of these sounds like its going to be resonable.
So, maybe you could create these things, put together a pack of them and sell them?
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im thinking why don't make the "modular" and "usermodular" separate ?
add an option when you insert a new machine to use an "user machine"
in this way we have a normal modular and we can add separately an "user instrumeny"(a modular derivate instrument with custom ui) this will give the impression of possibilty to add new machine created from users :)
so is just an idea
This is up to Rej and I am pretty sure he wants to keep this as simple as possible on his end right now.
Well yes, they are just presets in a preset pack but with the look of something more and specific uses/implementations.
yes i think in my way is more big work :)
I think this is important. You want to be able to increase distortion/cutoff freq without increasing volume.
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Of course if you wind it back to the problem of "modular presets are too complicated". The creator of the preset could simply say expose controls a, b and c to the end user and add these words, and it just auto generates the front panel with no embelishment.
I can pretty much figure that Rej would have no interest in having this part of Caustic, there is a reason I was taking on this project.
Hey obviously no rush, Rej badly needs a break. You (Mike) still recovering everything from recent months, and I am taking small break before I start up the first round of demos for my growing list of eager testers. Builderz Pro as a finished product won't happen until later this summer. I intend to make this one the biggest most awesome set of tools that one would ever get their hands on for a mobile music app anywhere, and I plan to take my time with this one to make it solid and user friendly. It will be the biggest thing I've made for Caustic, so yeah no rush, but if it happens, I will use it, would be a perfect fit for my goodies I'm about to dive into here.
Can't you detect my excitement already?
Liking the sound of this from what I've read so far. Very exciting.
my generally goldfish like memory allowed me to comment a few times before I realised I was already involved in the conversation
I think it's a great idea and hope it can be implemented in a way that supports the aim - Mike, I think I have a few mod presets that I'd like to elevate to machine status (not mine, but tweaked versions of other peoples).
Ooh, not quite what I meant I'm not fussed about floaty or non-floaty keyboard. More the WYSIWYG thing - the preset is defined by the modules added when the preset/machine is saved, so you create a new modular preset that is a new machine, not a new Modular preset.
It has to be a killer preset to make this a great idea, but there are so many killer presets, I'm confident it is a great idea
Okay, an 'Acid for the Masses' machine gets my vote
Well James, I am the all knowing on the site and yes, that thread I read and remember your comment and Rej's reply. I have Gadget on my iPad so I know exactly what I am aiming for.
I'm sure you do too, I'll try and compile a shortlist of killer presets in case that helps
Would these "front panel" bezels be part of a Modular preset? just now it appears to have three panels instead of two..... I would imagine a default skin that goes with the theme of the app's skin....
Another question..... would this new bezel panel be customizable? For what I want to make, I would want complete control of specific knobs I want to manipulate on the front bezel panel......
This really gets my wheels spinning big time here....... Builderz Style of course
Jason, I think you are getting confused, that image above is just a prototype. The knobs and such are placeholders that can be resized. In the real app, you would load up your real images into the knob controls you are adjusting. In the end I will/could just bake the background for you with the knobs into one image for export into the actual preset.
Rej and I have talked about it, so the controls and background images will just be bytes in the preset that Rej will be loading when Caustic loads the synth.
Of course you could make one in an image editor and then load it as a background, THEN position the placeholder knobs and size them against your premade background. This is done so I can export the size, location, type and osc commands of the specific knob.
Plus as you can see I could start really rambling because this could get pretty complex when things start to fall into place down the road.
I was thinking about Robs comment about bloated ness of images on a mobile device. Compared to wav files loaded in PCMSynths, these presets even with some graphics are going to be negligible, so people will know they are not just downloading an ordinary modular preset, they will know they are getting something custom that might take up more space. Whatever.
Oh I understood what you said before, and the image is just something you were messing around with, but I can imagine where this will go, and I can't wait to get my hands on a prototype if it surfaces in the future...
This is a splendid idea Mike, it's soo much easier to edit a preset with only the critical knobs exposed. Maybe this idea could be expanded even further. I'm thinking about a special "plugin machine" based on the modular where you could load those skinned presets. Maybe this machine could use more modules than the current modular synth. I think most people will only use presets already made so this synth may be editable in the desktop version only (if required).
I' m not kissing a man!!! I'm a guy!!! No!!! Not homophobe! But don't understand why we must kiss in the beginning.... I perfer a nod. Or handshake every now and a again.
Where do I preregister mike? Lol, but kind of serious
At the fundemental level everything is frequency, music truly is life :)
Lol if mike requires a kisd by god I will man up :P all joking aside my mind is blown.
No preregister needed. This project will hatch in due time.Its more the logistics of Rej and I really, my end will just be the editor and UX things.
Rej and I have to figure out how and what goes into the preset that is created on my end.
This is a super cool project and I have no problem paying some money now to help even if the project doesn't release for another 5 years :)
That being said so if I understand right it would be theoretically pissible to recreate a virus synth then?
Also how would (if at all) would the machine input be handled?
> That being said so if I understand right it would be theoretically pissible to recreate a virus synth then?
Umm... well, eh .... no, not exactly.
This project is meant to "Wrap" modular synth presets. So... Whatever sound you make in the modular, you could create any type of visual UI for the controls you want if that is what you are asking.
As far as Machine Input modules, they will have a selector of current synths in the rack. So what I am saying is, they will be "ports" and you know this when you make the preset and plan for it to be extended by users when they plug into your machine inputs.
I also want to make a node editor for the desktop version where you can create presets using a Node graph like NI Reaktor.
I am by no means speaking for Rej but I could see this functionality happening around the next beta for Caustic (knock on wood).
Can't wait. I have seven Builderz Pro "library presets" near completion.... Could be candidates to test out....
Awesome thanks for the info mike :)
I just took a moment two reread some of this. And atm i'm partial two "machine input" why???
From any other machine u can make your composition. But after awhile it needs definitely a signature sound. As something only caustic can produce sound (((( atm ))) so what i do???? I grab whatever!!!
With machine input filter it thru vocoder. It does ok some trks i get the desire sound i want. And others??? Well, i still working on trks dat is giving me hell from modular as i know it's not the machine but me. And partially why i have no room for more expansion for my sound.
if i had this for every machine as for every beatbox (( which i use 3 per song )))
bassline , (( 1 or 2 i like the fusion of my mids and hi of this and subsynth so i can add automatons two each and mix separate. ))) i rarely add modular as an effects board. ((( idk how!! ))) but i want so much from this app. I need two calm down.
I love the idea. I like making Modular presets and I like making my own UI too, but too lazy to do a whole skin.
So this is the opportunity to make my "own" synths within Caustic, it's a killer feature !
The only regrets are that the Modular is mono, and if you use external sound sources with the machine input module, well, they will remain external so even with a extended modular preset, your custom synth will not be complete... maybe these linked machines can be hidden so it can free some slots...
This leads me to a question regarding the Machine input component : how can you incorporate it in your own UI and still be able to choose the sound source and the ability to send notes to the sound source ?
So if I understand well it's like having a mini "synthedit" in Caustic that use the Modular components, instead of "save as VST" you will have "save as custom Caustic modular preset". It's also similar to what you can do with the MUX in the Mutools MUX VST or Mutools Mulab DAW".
A. Yes its mono, remember Caustic 1? If this idea works well and Rej and I get on the same wave length, who knows what is possible in the future using this feature.
B. There will be custom components that can be dropped into your synth face plate IE selectors that would be dynamic based on the current rack, just like they are in the modular currently.
C. "mini synth edit" well kind of for the fact you can do anything the modular can. If this project is popular enough, I will make a Node editor for desktop and mobile that will allow you to actually assemble the preset within the application, so you can do everything in the app UI/Sound design.
Also, Rej and I have kicked around linking front knobs to multiple modular knobs (adjusting many modular controls at once), this is phase 2 though.
Ooh... Reminds me... Can you have an xy pad linked to 2 controls please.
> Ooh... Reminds me... Can you have an xy pad linked to 2 controls please.
This falls into Rej's territory because the controls are actually IN Caustic. So for now the answer is no.
I want to pitch-modulate the incoming machine-synth's signal (this would open the door for me for some new batches of Modular-built effects within, and more... I know it can be done, because PCMSynth does it already...
Actually I've got an XY control used in some prototypes, I'm sure I can offer it for your stuff Mike.
Kewl! I err on the side of no until I hear from you.
Will I get rich if i write a caustictionary based on this thread? ;)
+1 for the pitch modulation.
Been waiting for this, definitely worth playing with.
Have a little listen to my work.
I was playing with the MOD synth last night with this project in mind and it occurred to me the way to map the control values back to the source control knob needs to be somewhat fluid... So I wrote a bit of code... in SQL because that's all I had open at the time...
Declare @Lower As Float = .9
Declare @Upper As Float = .5
Declare @KnobPosition As Float = 1
Print @Lower + (@KnobPosition * (@Upper - @Lower))
So basically... Set a lower and an upper to where you want the control to move to, in this example the knob works backwards so my lower is .9 my upper is .5 so if my proxy control position is at 0 the result would be .9 if my proxy control was at 1 the result would be .5.
I just noticed a couple of the resonance and cut off filters sometimes got a bit glitchy at the extremes so you might not want those extremes to be available through the front end.
Anyway, don't know if this is helpful or just being a pain in the arse.
I like the idea of setting control limits for nobs, when I make devices I sometimes find there is only a limited useful range. If you could set a minimum and maximum on the control you would not have to be quite so precise in using it.
PS I have a couple of machines I would love to make a custom front end for.
I agree and also a lot of the times, cutoff, decay things like that have a sweet spot that is about 1/4 of the knob range. Imagine being able to set that control for the sweet spot only! What that would make for some nice sound filter tweeks.
Which is why that bit of code I provided is so good!
You set the lower and upper on the source control, the can run from 0-1, 1-0, .25-.5 and it'll map it to a full range on the proxy control.
*This assumes the controls go from 0-1
Confused about one thing, would rhis relpace the existing modular or be a new additional synth? I would hate to see the current modular go. Alarmist.
No, it's not a replacement for the Modular, it's an alternative path for those that suffer from Mod-phobia.
The idea partly comes from Korg's Gadget for iOS - use the Modular with a systematically generated GUI to create a preset that's also a machine.
This is to make the Modular more accessible to new / just starting out / casual Caustic users.
People who are comfortable with the principals of Modular synthesis carry on as normal.