Hello.
I am new to this forum but have been using Caustic 3 on my mobile for the last 6 months or so and wanted to offer a slightly different perspective on what this remarkable application can do.
Over the last few months I have been using free .sf2 soundfont samples to do a mix of different styles of music incorporating electronic but also orchestral and ethnic instruments and have been surprised at the sound quality of what it is possible from a mobile device.
Caustic clearly isn't intended for orchestral composition but I have found that with a little creativity you can produce quite impressive results. I have included a file above which includes 10 tracks all made entirely within Caustic 3 with free soundfonts.
The only features I feel that Caustic 3 would benefit from for the purposes of orchestral music are the ability to automate tempo changes during a track (which Rej has hinted might be feasible in a future update) and some kind of basic keyswitching in the PCM synth (eg. to alternate between legato and staccato samples). And that's about it. Otherwise the only limitation on what you can produce is down to the quality of the samples you are using.
There is something about Caustic that has re-kindled an interest in making music for me - the potential for mobile composition, the convenience of capturing and developing musical ideas at any time, the simplicity and intuitiveness of the interface and the fact that there is no equipment between you and the music - just your finger on one hand and a screen in the other.
I have listened to a fair bit of content created on Caustic on this site, Soundcloud and Youtube and have heard some fantastic electronic and dance music but have yet to really hear anyone branching out beyond this. Perhaps I have not cast my net wide enough but if anyone would like any help or pointers for developing orchestral ideas on Caustic 3 (midi sequencing tips, best .sf2 samples, compositional ideas, etc) I would be happy to oblige if I can.
Otherwise, I would like to again extend my appreciation and admiration to Mr Poirier for his incredible software.
Richard Smith
Inevitable failed upload. Try Soundcloud link.
Hi Richard and welcome to the forum!
Quite by coincidence I stumbled upon your tracks on YouTube a couple of days ago so it's great to see you here! I listened to nearly all your tracks .They are superb examples of writing,arranging, programming and mixing. I was so pleased to see Caustic being used for this genre of music as I feel it is a little under represented here yet I knew from my own tests that Caustic is perfectly capable of being used for this style of music along with others such as jazz and latin.
I'm a classically trained trumpet player who also plays jazz and pop so I can really relate to the skills necessary to pull off these kind of pieces with Caustic and that's not to say that some of the other genres (EDM for example) when well done are any easier to put together.
As you mentioned there are still a couple of things which would make really expressive music a little easier with Caustic. Tempo changes as you've mentioned is one of them and for me there are a few more. Other time signatures, 3/4, 7/8, 9/8, etc would be useful. (I think these are coming.) Sample layering in the PCM synth would allow velocity switching and therefore better dynamics. Velocity controlled filters for the non sample based synths would make them more expressive and finally some of the synths would benefit from a longer decay envelope.
Having said all that, you have proved with your work that even with limitations great things can be achieved with Caustic. In fact I believe that some limitations force us to be more creative!
Again thank you for showing off your excellent compositions and an alternative view of what Caustic is capable of.
EDIT: By the way, how did you achieve the 6/8 - 12/8 time signature feel in your first track? Did you just use a very slow 4/4 tempo?
Many thanks.
Good point about time signatures. I have done a couple of things in 3/4 time using triplets with offset accents but it is a bit of a pain and a dedicated feature for setting different time signatures would be great. Not sure I could manage something in 7/8 though.
The third track is in 3/4 time and like you said, if you set the tempo really slow and use triplets you get a 3/4 feel.
Yes, a few people have tried 3/4 the 'workaround' way but the trouble is it messes up your bar lines so it's impossible to relate it to written out sheet music. Proper time signature settings will be a real bonus if/when they arrive.
I'd be interested to know which soundfonts you've been using. Perhaps you could knock up a list when you have time. I'm sure others here would be interested to know too.
Google "orchestral soundfonts" and you'll very quickly find several GBs worth of free .sf2 samples. Most sound really bad but you'll find some good stuff in amongst it all. The orchestral ones I use most are squidfont, Saint James orchestra and some random ones.
I always thought that a dedicated machine to Ochestral/Symphonic stuff would be super cool; similar to the Pad Synth but with more dynamic controls and the ability to emphasize a horn section, do a tympani roll, etc. But for super elaborate projects you can always do that one machine at a time and export the stems for finalization in another program. Be wary of awful .sfz on the internet! You get what you pay for. :D
Very nice Mr Smith! I also try to push the boundaries of Caustic, but still haven't shared my aural adventures...I use a lot of classical sf2s, including the ones you are using (they are quite excellent). Currently I try to incorporate small ensembles into pop/ballad structures. So, just to stay brief I am happy to see a Caustic user doing something that wasn't originally meant to be done in this application. Congrats - really good stuff!!
https://soundcloud.com/spyro-karagiannis
My attempts at the classical caustic files i've got far more work two do. But i'm very glad i heard this. Thank you
My main thang is how do u format a song forum this long? Nothing like traditional rap/hip-hop or r'n-b & pop or country. Song formats in these genres r pretty much if u been studying listen two this form of music awhile it pretty str8 forward two follow but drum and bass dubstep?? Techno?? Tend two lead thru whateva' they feel is the end. And dat's the end!! Lol
but classical. Dammmmm.
I'll be interested in a sample sound file gather strength as how two build my material up lil better each time.
Is it possible for u, two share a song file of this caliber?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e9raqs2r107cw3d/GAME%20OF%20THRONES2.caustic?dl=0
This is a link to the Caustic file for an arrangement of the Game of Thrones theme I did. Hope it gives you some useful ideas.
Yes sir this should thank you.
I guess i was under the impression of scoring multiple sections. And u was sending a cross-sectiion of a bigger much better file.
Two where i sea the simplicity of a repetitious beat. But..... i was think alot more work went in two a composition like this.. my fault. Didn't mean two waste your time.
That GoT file of yours really is jawdropping, richsmith. What a huge sound!
https://soundcloud.com/squirrelonmars
https://www.youtube.com/c/squirreIs
https://www.facebook.com/squirrelonmars
http://singlecellsoftware.com/node/9439
Ur stuff is seriously good dude. Would love advice as I just started messing about with strings and its only then that I realised the variety of different sounds you need to find. Not just violin but arco, muted et al. Ur stuff makes my string quartet effort sound like a kid with a metal pipe and a hammer
Ur stuff is seriously good dude. Would love advice as I just started messing about with strings
www.soundcloud.com/lexeiourdan
Insta @alexeibourdan
Twitt @alexeibourdan
https://m.youtube.com/channel/UCYKUy18KH5lh1N8xVSQaCmw
Thanks for your comments.
I have had a listen to your Outside cover and I would say that your first foray into using string soundfonts is much more successful than my early efforts were.
Google "orchestral soundfonts" and you will quickly find links to loads. Most of them sound really bad but some of them sound decent. Experiment. The ones I use the most are from squidfont, St James Orchestra and some random ones.
Some thoughts on midi for strings within Caustic . . .
- increase the 'release' control within the envelope filter to create a more natural tail so the end of each note doesn't stop abruptly. This gives an illusion of legato for sustained string sounds. Overlapping sequential midi notes slightly can also help.
- de-quantise notes in the pattern editor and nudge them slightly ahead of each beat for samples with a slightly delayed attack time. This lets the peak of the sample fall closer in time with the metronome and gets sounds to mesh together.
- vary velocities of midi notes within a passage to humanise the sound. For instance, an arpeggio will naturally tend to have louder notes at the start and end of a sequence and quieter notes in between.
- the main thing I have just worked out now is pattern automation for the volume control. This creates a swell in volume which starts to create realism in terms of expression. Check out the Caustic app tutorial on automation. The pattern automation feature in Caustic 3 is just brilliantly intuitive and ridiculously quick to execute. This is the key to introducing realism for strings and any legato instruments.
Rich, this is inspirational. Great work. Thanks also for the tip about the soundfonts, have been struggling to find good strings.
@fleejax
https://m.soundcloud.com/fleejax
I heard each of his works up to YouTube and I marveled at his compositions. I really admire your creative talent and the use of orchestral samples with their movements, they are really good. A real pleasure to see him around here and I hope we continue to delight with their works. A big hug from Chile.
Hatarakimasu
https://soundcloud.com/patriciogalazsapiain
Damn! Nicely done! I'm really struggling to add in live instruments into my tracks. I'm looking for more blues/jazz/funk stuff though. Like Pablo I play the trumpet, or used to, it's been years. I wish I would have stuck with it since there are so many different genres that use brass instruments.
It's great to know there's a fellow brass player here and we also share a love of blues,jazz and funk!
It's never too late to pick it up again Mekanism! It's a bit like riding a bike really, once you've learned you never really forget. It'll just take a bit of practice to get your 'lip' back. Do it!!
For some reason I'm a little late to the show on this one... But my word, your stuff is simply brilliant! Very very impressed!
.... and we both have a track called Surface Tension...
My latest track on show and tell
My Soundcloud page
I'll tell you this... it is an extroardinary challenge to replicate orchestral sounds and environment electronically on computers..... even the most expensive suites still fall a bit short, unless you are very very clever and put the tremendous time and effort to bring out the realism in your compositions....
Now bring this to a mobile music platform level such as Caustic here..... makes it that more difficult to do this -- yeah I've tried it myself and wasn't really satisfied with the end result, and ended up pulling it off my SoundCloud.
Your track here sounds nice, and I can tell it was not an easy task to put together.
Nicely done.
This is awesome!!!!!! Can you post the .caustic files here so that I can examine these awesome sounds?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e9raqs2r107cw3d/GAME%20OF%20THRONES2.caustic?dl=0
Caustic 3 Game of Thrones arrangement
https://www.dropbox.com/s/5vvik93b31arvlw/Ethnic%20Demo.caustic?dl=0
Cauatic file for Ethnic instruments demo.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/e6yfo3eaqsx139h/Percussion%20demo.caustic?dl=0
Caustic file for Percussion demo
Thank you for your comments.
I have a background as a reasonable pianist in the past but prior to 4-5 months ago I had never tried writing orchestral type music before. I have some very limited experience of computer recording using Sonar many years ago while playing with a band that always struggled getting anything done.
As I've mentioned above, something about the immediacy and total intuitiveness of using Caustic has rekindled an interest in making music. I don't have to sit down with a PC, switch on 5 or 6 various pieces of hardware, wait for windows to boot, configure endless connection issues and discover new and interesting ways for Sonar to crash during the creative process.
I'm always slightly alarmed that whenever I write something in Caustic it always seems to end up an unrelentingly bleak track but I suspect this has more to do with me than the software.
I would also like to pretend that I'm doing something special and secret but it's really not and with the right soundfonts it scares me how straightforward it is to get good results from Caustic which I only ever use on my mobile.
The only thing stopping Caustic from being a completely viable self contained vehicle for serious orchestral type composition (at least on Android) is functional midi (my midi keyboard just won't talk to Caustic down a OTG USB connector) and a very short list of workable features discussed above (different time signatures, tempo automation, etc).
I do an entirely non-music related job and having a creative outlet in the evenings is good for the soul. I am genuinely looking forward to see how this amazing piece of software evolves in the future. I hope that Mr Poirier can incorporate changes which cater to orchestral/classical composition in addition to electronic/dance music. From the comments here I think there is a real appetite for people to try new things.
It would take a while to get my lip back for sure, but I can still play a C scale, albeit badly and out of tune.
Have to agree with everyone else here. your music is impressive!
'Askar
https://www.soundcloud.com/xenoplas